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Create Your Bedroom Haven

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You spend a third of your life in bed. Two of the most important activities for your wellbeing – sleep and sex – happen there. So when is the last time you thought about your bedroom and if it is meeting your needs?

In this episode, we explore ideas to make your bedroom into a haven of safety and comfort so you can get better rest, enjoy more time connecting with your lover and have a bubble of love to rest, restore and revive.

We cover:

  • how to make simple upgrades to make your bedroom more restful
  • inexpensive ways to bring beauty and art into your bedroom
  • how to deal with the paradox of using your bedroom for both relaxation and arousal
  • why to think about the gender and erotic mood of your space
  • using scent as a memory bridge to shift the mood
  • communicating about what you need to sleep better when sharing a bed with your partner

Big thanks to #LubeLife for sponsoring this episode – use the code 20Mechanics for 20% off your order at LubeLife.com


Podcast Transcript for Create Your Bedroom Haven episode

Podcast transcripts are generated with love by humans, and thus may not be 100% accurate. Time stamps are included so you can cross reference or jump to any point in the podcast episode above. THANKS to the members of our Pleasure Pod for helping make transcripts and the rest of our free offerings happen! If you love what we offer, find ways to show your love and dive deeper with us here: SHOW SOME LOVE

Chris Rose: 00:01 Hi. Welcome to Speaking of Sex with the Pleasure Mechanics. I’m Chris.

Charlotte Rose: 00:05 I’m Charlotte.

Chris Rose: 00:06 We are the Pleasure Mechanics, and on this podcast, we offer soulful and explicit advice about all facets of human sexuality. Come on over to pleasuremechanics.com for our online home, where you will find our complete podcast archive, all of our online courses that are ready for you when you are ready to uplevel your erotic experience, and while you are there, go to pleasuremechanics.com/free and enroll in the Erotic Essentials, our free online course, which is packed with some of our favorite techniques and strategies, and even a free foot massage demonstration. Get started. What are you waiting for? Pleasuremechanics.com/free.

Chris Rose: 00:50 All right, today on the podcast, we are going to be talking about your bedroom, and little changes, maybe some big changes, you can make to your bedroom to have a more restful and erotic experience while you’re in that room of your home. Before we get started, I want to thank our sponsor for this episode, Lube Life. Lube Life offers amazon.com’s bestselling line of personal lubricants. There’s a whole range of water based, and silicone based, and even flavored lubes, if you’re into that kind of thing. Use the link in the show notes page for 20% off your entire order at Lube Life, and thanks so much to Lube Life for sponsoring this episode.

Chris Rose: 01:34 All right, on to your bedroom. It’s an important room, when you think about it, in terms of your life, but how often do we really think about our bedrooms, and think about what we could do to make them not only more of a haven, so we can get more rest and better sleep, but also to make them an erotic sanctuary? Is your bedroom supporting your sex life, or is it maybe blocking your sex life in some way, or causing discord in your sex life that you haven’t actually named yet? So we’re just going to be exploring all things boudoir today on the podcast.

Charlotte Rose: 02:15 Yeah. It’s so valuable, sometimes, to just take a step back and look at spaces in our life and see if they are supporting what we want them to be doing in our life, in this case sleep and sex. So this is just an opportunity to really reflect on what we’re creating in our life.

Chris Rose: 02:33 And we’re going to hope to offer you a wide range of points of reflection, and options. We know it is not possible to just like redo your bedroom, and buy all new furniture, and make it the sensual sanctuary of your dreams for everyone, but maybe there are little tweaks you can make. Maybe there are little things you haven’t thought about, in how this room impacts your life. If you think about it, you probably spend about a third of your life in your bedroom, and it’s easy to think, well most of that is while we’re asleep and unconscious. Therefore, it doesn’t really matter. But it does matter, and it matters in terms of sleep, and it matters in terms of sex.

Chris Rose: 03:12 And as we approached this conversation, I was thinking about is it a paradox that we’re trying to design a space for both restfulness, and this sense of a haven, where we can really sink into our deepest sense of safety and rest, to sleep well, but also trying to create a space for excitement, and arousal, and seduction? So how do we straddle these two functions for one room?

Charlotte Rose: 03:42 And that’s going to be so personal, between you and your partner, and your aesthetics, and your desires, for the feeling you want to create in this room, and I think the answer to that is going to be different for each person and each couple. What we find calming, what we find erotic, are going to be so, so different, but it’s valuable just to reflect on.

Chris Rose: 04:02 So, let’s walk through the bedroom and think about how we can optimize these spaces to be more supportive of our overall wellbeing and our sexual wellbeing. Before we get started, I want to acknowledge this is part of our series on burnout and on completing the stress cycle, and it turns out sleep is really, really important for our health. And this is not news to anyone, but something about the way the Nagoskis wrote about it in the Burnout book really reminded me that sleep is not something we can catch up on later. It’s not something we can compromise on. Our bodies need it, and if we are not getting the kind of sleep we need, we are doing ourself a disservice. And there’s no, like, debate around this in the medical community.

Chris Rose: 04:52 We could do a whole episode about the benefits of sleep, but I don’t think anyone really needs to hear that. We all know the importance of sleep, and I think we could, you know, extrapolate on if you are under-slept, and therefore fatigued, how that would then create downward spirals in your relationship. You might get more moody. You don’t have enough energy for dates. You don’t have enough energy for physical activity, let alone sex, right? So it’s like sleep is this one thing we can give ourselves to uplevel all of our life, and just support ourselves as an organism. Sometimes, when we think about having better sex, we forget how we are having sex as a holistic organism, so something as simple as sleep can really impact how much you want sex.

Chris Rose: 05:44 Like, your body has to be pretty well resourced to be interested in fucking. It’s kind of an extra bonus when your body is, like, in a pretty good state, and it’s like, “All right, let’s play.” If it’s in crisis, and is under-slept, undernourished, under-resourced, it takes a lot more to get those gears grinding. So don’t discount the importance of something like a good night of sleep on fulfilling your wildest fantasies. There’s a very direct connection.

Charlotte Rose: 06:14 We live in a culture that is so obsessed with moving fast, and achieving, and productivity that to carve time out, significant time out, to really rest is quite countercultural, and we’re doing this episode because it’s probable that some of you really need to be reminded of this. Maybe not all of you. We want to remind us all that sleep matters, and is medicine for the body, and supports your sex life, because you are resourced.

Chris Rose: 06:46 The Nagoskis talk about how we are not complete without sleep. Learning is not complete without sleep. Exercise, movement, is not complete without sleep. Social interaction is not complete without sleep. And that was a really good reminder for me of all these things we do bring our time and energy to during the day, learning, physical exercise, social engagement, like loving people, all of those things need the sleep to complete. It’s a great chapter of the book. It really just was a very sobering reminder for us, especially as new parents, recovering from health crisis, like giving ourself the gift of sleep is a beautiful thing.

Chris Rose: 07:32 So, let’s go to the bedroom. Let’s go to the bedroom. When you walk into your bedroom, how do you feel? How do you feel? Is it just an extension of your house, or is it a special room in some way? We want to shoot for when you walk through the door of your bedroom, you feel a little different. You feel invited into an inner sanctum, an inner sanctuary within your own home, would be one way to think about it. What do you want to feel when you go to your bedroom? Do you want to feel calm? Do you want to feel serene? Do you want to feel supported, comfortable and cozy? Some people like a really sparse bedroom. Other people like a lot of mementos. What is the vibe you are going for, and have you talked to your partner about it if you share a bedroom?

Chris Rose: 08:24 Because sometimes, not always, but sometimes it kind of falls on the woman in a relationship to decorate, and I’ve heard from men who have said to me, “I can’t get horny in my bedroom, because it looks like a Laura Ashley store, or it looks like a little girl’s room. My wife’s stuffed animals are on our bed, from her childhood, and it just turns me off.” Things like that, or like, do you have a big picture of your family next to the bed, so you’re trying to fuck your wife, and your eyes fall on the gaze of your child, and maybe that’s a turnoff. What are the little things in your room that can be tweaked, and can that be a really active collaboration, so both of you feel good? So look at the gender of the space, and do both of you feel like reflected and supportive, and does it feel like a collaboration? Is this bedroom a place where you both belong?

Charlotte Rose: 09:20 Beautiful, yeah. I think family photos are great to put all the rest … put everywhere else in the bedroom, and-

Chris Rose: 09:27 So you as an artist, how do you feel about art in the bedroom, and … Go to the walls, Charlotte? What should be on the walls of a bedroom?

Charlotte Rose: 09:33 I mean, I think ideally things that feel evocative of the kind of sexuality and sensuality that you want to create for yourself and in your relationship. We can use art on our walls as placeholders for ideas, experiences, sensations, what we want to evoke for ourselves, and we can be intentional about that together, and it can be a fun experience to pick things out together, potentially.

Chris Rose: 09:59 And think about hotel rooms you have been in. We’ve all been in those frumpy hotel rooms, where they have like pictures of little girls in floral dresses with baskets of flowers on the walls, and that will evoke a different feeling than going to a hotel room with beautiful modern art, or crashing waves, or … You know, what images evoke the feeling state you are going for? And give yourself permission to change things up and try it out. Art doesn’t have to be expensive. You can frame images out of like old books, go to art fairs, by art from students. Charlotte has beautiful paintings.

Charlotte Rose: 10:40 I haven’t really come out to our audience about that yet. I guess I am now.

Chris Rose: 10:44 The artist within you is stirring again, after our child is growing up-

Charlotte Rose: 10:47 Yes.

Chris Rose: 10:47 … but let’s use art, and again, some people will really resonate with this and other people won’t, but continuing from the walls, think about your curtains, and your sheets, and the colors in your room. What colors are you bringing into your bedroom, and do these evoke what you want to evoke? And again, we have to think about this paradox, because what we want to do in order to calm our bodies down and sleep is different than what we want to do to amp our bodies up and get aroused and excited.

Chris Rose: 11:19 I had an amazing art history teacher in Barcelona, who was this amazing old guy. He had lived through the Spanish Civil War, and was friends with Picasso, and slept with Dali’s wife, and was just a wonderful man. And he, in his apartment, had two bedrooms, as a lifelong bachelor. He had the bedroom for rest and the bedroom for entertaining the ladies, he told me, and the entertainment room was like a full-on sensual boudoir. You know, it was a four-post bed, and it was like red velvet, and like lush.

Chris Rose: 11:53 Most of us don’t have the luxury of two rooms, but can we create kind of a dual feeling? Can we create a serene platform for our rest, and for that sweetness, and cuddling, and coming together at the end of the day, that feeling of sanctuary together, and then have things that can transform the space, and create a secondary feel, so kind of like an overlay? And that might just be a change of lighting. That could be some candles you light, some scent you bring in, a change of sheets, or you know, you pull off the blanket and the bed is a different color, something. Like, is there a way you can create a mental cue that this room has two different purposes and functions?

Chris Rose: 12:44 And again, this will depend on your home situation. If you live alone with your partner and can fuck in any room of the house, maybe your bedroom is really serene, and you have a corner of your living room that has your sex furniture. I don’t know. If you have kids coming in and out of your bedroom, you might not want to hang up paintings of nudes. That’s kind of up to you. So this all has to fit within your lifestyle. Just saying that again. There is no one-size-fits-all advice for how your bedroom should look. We just want you to walk in and feel that sense of, “Ah, I’m home. I’m here. This feels good.”

Chris Rose: 13:22 This also means things like keeping it clean, clearing out clutter, and laundry baskets. What are you looking at when you lie down in bed at night? Does your eye wander to chores? Does it wander to a cluttered desk, with your checkbooks and the bills stacked up? Could that go in another room? A lot of this is just making changes on purpose and seeing what happens.

Chris Rose: 13:46 Another experiment you might try, we’ve been doing recently, is we got a cell phone caddy. I went to Michael’s art store, and I got a little wooden box, and we have it on a bookshelf at the front of our home, and we are now trying to be in the practice of leaving our cell phones there while we’re in our home together. And just having a $3 box has changed our behavior, and therefore, it changes our experience of being together, around the table, without our phones, of coming to bed without our phones. So how do you change kind of the architecture of your lifestyle to support the experience you want to have?

Charlotte Rose: 14:26 The Nagoskis talk about, in your relationship, wanting to create a love bubble, and we want to bring that idea into our bedroom. When you enter, can it feel like a bubble of love between you and your partner? What would that feel like for you? It’s kind of an exciting idea.

Chris Rose: 14:43 Do you want to talk about scent at all? We’ve talked about the visual. We’ve talked about the kind of energetics of the space. How do the other senses fit in, so smell, the physical feeling of sheets? What would your thoughts there be?

Charlotte Rose: 15:00 I feel like scent and plants are so valuable to bring in, if you’re into that kind of thing. Scent is a beautiful tool to bring into the bedroom, both for relaxation and for sensuality. Different people react differently to scents. Some people love them. Some people don’t like them. There are a lot of artificial scented candles on the market, and they can really affect people’s bodies, so there are essential oils, there are more natural ways you can bring scent into the room, that can have a really beautiful effect on the body, and can act as a bridge to certain states of being. So that’s something to explore. You can make room sprays with essential oils. You can use diffusers. There are some cheap and effective diffusers out there, and you can just get one bottle of essential oil, and that can be like your room’s love bubble zone, that you kind of begin associating.

Chris Rose: 16:02 When you say a bridge, I think it’s important just to say what that means. Scent is very associated in the brain with memory. If you smell a certain smell, you can immediately have this whole-body memory of a kitchen when you were a kid, and a specific dish someone used to cook. These parts of the brain are very, very linked, so if you have a specific smell that you diffuse into the room every time you have sex, and then you’re getting ready for a date night, and you put a drop of that in the diffuser, it starts reminding your body of the feeling state of sex nights, versus if you put a drop of a different essential oil, maybe a lavender, or something really relaxing, and that is what you put on when you’re trying to relax and go to sleep at night, this can be a way of cuing your body for these different states we want to feel in our bedroom.

Chris Rose: 16:57 So Charlotte is our essential oil queen around here. I am the really sensitive one when it comes to artificial smells, like certain bathrooms at restaurants I can’t go in, because of all the chemicals, so we had to work together, again, to find which essential oils worked well for both of us, and there were certain smells she loved. They triggered me, so they were not a good fit for both of us, and that’s something to always kind of go back to, is again, the Venn diagram. We talk about the Venn diagram of your pleasures, and your kinks, and your fantasies, but what about the Venn diagram of your comforts, and your joys, and what makes you feel safe and at home? Because that’s the feeling we’re mostly going for in the bedroom, and then you kind of layer eroticism on top of that.

Chris Rose: 17:46 Plants are kind of my domain in the house. I love house plants, and they can actually be very cheap, and a way to totally transform the space. I recently had to go to Walmart for another reason, so I ended up buying a few orchids from Walmart, and they were like $12 orchids, and I found some decorative bowls in our kitchen that we hadn’t been using it, and for $24, we now have beautiful orchids on both side of our bed. And this is like an accessible way … And orchids, by the way, will last for six months in bloom, so for $10, you have half of a year of beauty in your house, that will go so much further than a cheap bouquet of carnations, right? So how do we leverage our resources? How do we make beauty and indulgences that last?

Chris Rose: 18:40 One thing you taught me about was investing in really good sheets and towels, and how our sheets are this thing that we lie on for eight hours a night, and we want to make sure that feels good to our skin. So I have learned having a winter set of sheets, and like warm, cozy flannel, and then transitioning into spring and summer sheets, nice cool cotton or bamboo. These are ways we take care of ourselves, and we honor the sensuality of our lives. If you are using an old, torn towel with poop stains on it from your kid to get out of the shower, like that does not signal pampering, and you know, like what are you telling yourself with the objects and the textures around you?

Chris Rose: 19:26 It’s great to think about, and then again, I know everyone can’t just go and buy new sheets, or a new bed, or a new mattress, but what can you do? What little upgrades are accessible, and affordable, and available to you right now, because little changes then can like spark big feelings, and motivate bigger changes and bigger upgrades when they’re accessible to you, and you can figure out what those upgrades might even be.

Charlotte Rose: 19:52 Yeah, I’m always amazed at how the simple act of bringing plants into the bedroom, or any room, can just completely change the feeling. It’s kind of amazing.

Chris Rose: 20:04 Another huge factor to consider is lighting. This is another piece I am crazy about. I get really light sensitive at night, and a bright, glaring light in a room puts me in a bad mood. I can really just, like … So noticing that lighting is really important to me, I take whatever steps I can, which usually means turning the lights out, but candles, low lights, dimmer switches, all of these things can make a huge difference, and I was recently talking about this with one of our patrons over at patreon.com/pleasuremechanics, where you can support the show with a monthly donation.

Chris Rose: 20:46 I was talking to one of our patrons, who is an ex-pro cinematographer, and talking about lighting, and asking for some of his thoughts on it, and he actually developed an entire guide called Turn on Your Love Light, that we’re going to make available to our other patrons. There’ll be a link in the show notes page. But he really walks us through factors to consider, and gets kind of geeky and technical with us, thinking about the warmth of lighting, and what kind of bulbs create different warmth feels, and flatter the body, and make you feel more relaxed and sensual, versus more energetic. So big thanks to Allen for putting together this lighting guide for us. That will be posted on patreon.com/pleasuremechanics, for all of our lovely patrons.

Chris Rose: 21:40 One tip I really loved, especially as light bulbs are moving towards LEDs, is how to choose LEDs that feel warm, and he gives us the exact bulbs, and wattages, and temperatures to go for, and I think I’m going to be switching out some of our light bulbs after this, and really consider the lighting in your bedroom. If the only lighting option is a bright overhead chandelier, maybe invest in some side lights, some fairy lights, some string lights, some rope lights, like whatever works for you, and get creative with it, and notice how lighting affects your experience.

Chris Rose: 22:24 All right, so we have walked into your bedroom. We have considered the clutter, the mess we could clean up, the office desk we might be able to move to another room. We’ve talked about the objects in your room creating kind of an energetic feel, so we’ve given kind of a physical makeover to the space. I do want to switch now and talk about what happens in bed, and how to negotiate some of the actual mechanics of sleeping.

Chris Rose: 22:53 Before we do, I want to take a moment and thank our sponsor for this episode. Big thanks to lubelife.com for sponsoring this episode. Lube Life offers amazon.com’s bestselling line of personal lubricants. They have water-based lube, which is compatible with condoms and toys, silicone-based lube, which offers a long-lasting glide. A lot of people love it for butt play. And flavored lube, which some people love for oral sex. All of their products are made in their USDA-certified organic facility in California, with top-quality ingredients, so you can trust what you are reaching for when you need extra slip, slide, and glide in your erotic touch. Go to lubelife.com and use the code 20mechanics for 20% off your entire order. That’s 20mechanics at lubelife.com, or use the link in the show notes page, and big thanks to lubelife.com for sponsoring this episode.

Chris Rose: 24:00 All right, so back in your bedroom, I want to talk briefly about the things that happen in your bed. And of course, we talk about many things that happen in your bed in all of the episodes. I want to talk specifically here about sleep, and having a conversation with your partner about anything you can do to make your two bodies sleep better next to each other, because I think a lot of us have this Hollywood image that, “If we’re in love, we’ll just cuddle up, and spoon one another, and sleep entangled and blissfully all night long,” but that image doesn’t always work for people, and our bodies need different things to sleep well.

Chris Rose: 24:43 Some people love sleeping entangled in their lover’s arm, and are kind of like a puppy that doesn’t want to lose contact, and if you roll over, they’ll roll right into you. Other people, myself included, benefit from space around my body, and I don’t like having extra wrinkles. I can’t wear, like clothes and have sheets, right? I need, like, bare skin, no wrinkles in the sheets. I sound really high maintenance in this episode. I just know what works for me, whereas Charlotte wears a lot of clothes to bed, and really likes to stay warm, so we have different temperature needs.

Chris Rose: 25:20 And after a while of sleeping together, we realized that we need two duvets, two blankets, so she has a heavier duvet in the winter, I have a lighter duvet. Why are you laughing? Charlotte is cracking up over our duvets.

Charlotte Rose: 25:34 I just like the idea of like I’m wearing a lot of clothes. I’m not wearing like [inaudible 00:25:47] Sorry. I’m not wearing so many [inaudible 00:25:48]

Chris Rose: 25:54 Charlotte. All right, Charlotte is now-

Charlotte Rose: 25:55 I just [crosstalk 00:25:55]

Chris Rose: 25:55 … having a total breakdown about the idea of wearing so many clothes to bed. She wears-

Charlotte Rose: 25:59 I just don’t want you to think I was wearing like 15 layers. [inaudible 00:26:04]

Chris Rose: 26:04 It’s really sexy. She wears snow pants, and gloves, all meaning … All right, we are breaking your ear holes with all this laughing.

Charlotte Rose: 26:12 Okay.

Chris Rose: 26:15 All is to say we have different temperature needs, and temperature is one of those things, like our body just has different needs, and you can’t really love your way through that, you know? So it came a point where I was, “Charlotte, I love holding you. I love cuddling with you. I will hold you as long as you want, until you’re snoring, and then I am gone,” so now you’re snoring in all your clothes. Then I’m going to roll over and sleep by myself. I think especially the permission to have two blankets, two duvets, and take care of my own temperature, made sleeping together sustainable.

Chris Rose: 26:55 So, how do you sleep together? Do your bodies like a lot of contact? Do you want more space? How is your temperature? Make sure you are both accounted for and taken care of, and that one person’s needs aren’t dominating the sleep situation, and you’re not martyring yourself. Like, giving up sleep every night to make your partner feel comforted will not serve the relationship in the long term. So just have a really honest conversation about that. Talk about what you need, in terms of intimacy and connection, and what are those bedtime rituals? I always try to make sure, for 12 years, that the last words I say are, “I love you,” and that was a really intentional choice early on, and I really wanted to do that, and I now do that, I and just try to like mutter, “I love you,” before I go to bed every night. So what are little things like that that make you feel safe, and comforted, and that you can share this bed fully?

Charlotte Rose: 27:57 That’s so beautiful. Couples can figure out just little rituals that you can do before sleep, before getting in bed, that really make you feel loved, and connected, and cared for, and having a conversation, being intentional about it, can really make a difference in the long-term relationship, if you get into beautiful habits that make you feel good.

Chris Rose: 28:20 And part of this conversation might be you don’t go to bed at the same time. One of you stays up way later. Does the other person want to be kind of tucked in, and hang out with a little bit, and cuddled, and then kissed goodnight, and then the other person slips away for their late-night stuff? What would make you feel kind of you’ve completed the day together, and you have a point of connection and intimacy, even if it’s not sex, to complete the day and transition into sleep? While you’re in this conversation, talk about things like, “Am I allowed to wake you up in the middle of the night if I’m horny? Is that ever okay? How do you feel about morning sex? Am I allowed to initiate sex in the morning while you are asleep?” Right?

Charlotte Rose: 29:07 That’s a great one to have consent around.

Chris Rose: 29:09 Yeah.

Charlotte Rose: 29:09 Before experimenting with.

Chris Rose: 29:11 Like, is morning blowjobs on your morning wood okay, or is that like really irritating, because it makes you have to pee, and then you get awkward? Like, people have different requests around this, so have a conversation. Talk about how to optimize your bedroom, your sleep, and know that any steps you take towards getting better sleep will pay dividends in your overall wellbeing, and your relational wellbeing, and your sexual wellbeing. We need to be well rested to be the fucking goddesses and gods we are. We need to be well rested to be in good working order. We need good sleep to function well, to heal deeply, to integrate our learning, and our social learning. It is so important on all levels, and sleeping well as a couple, if you can get this down and find the ways that support both of you, it can be a really, like, nourishing part of your relationship.

Chris Rose: 30:15 I really love sleeping with Charlotte, and during the baby years, when she spent more time sleeping with our child, in our child’s room, I really missed sleeping with another body. For me, it’s like curling up in the cave at the end of a day with like my animal kin. That’s kind of really how it feels to me. It’s like the smells, the sensations, and this breathing body that I feel safe next to, and that I can slip into sleep and dreams, and know she’s there for me, and we’re loving each other, like even in the unconscious. That, for me, is very romantic. Like, sleeping well next to each other, and the sound of Charlotte’s snoring, and her breath, you know, like these things are very, very comforting in long-term relationships, and we only got there because we worked on it, and we figured out what works best for us. And now, it works, and we have a beautiful bed.

Charlotte Rose: 31:15 But it took a while, sometimes, figuring out like the evening rituals of going to bed, and one person going to sleep, one person staying up. Those things, there can be like some hurt feelings, some unexpressed needs, like some uncomfortable conversations-

Chris Rose: 31:28 “I’m lying here in bed waiting for you, and you’re watching porn.” “I didn’t know you were waiting for me. I thought you had gone to bed.” “Well, why don’t you come and check on me?” Like, that would have been avoided with a conversation, right? How-

Charlotte Rose: 31:41 That wasn’t the specific conversation we had, by the way. Not that there’s any shame in that conversation, but yes, having those conversations, so you can get to a more unified place, whatever that looks like for you, is valuable. Also, just in terms of creating your room as the love bubble that you want to be in. I think it’s like valuable to make a space that you want to hang out in kind of casually before bed, that it’s a place that you guys both want to go to, and just be together for a while before sleep, because that is a space that can lead into sex for some people some evenings. It creates more opportunities and more moments of potential intimacy if that is right for you that day, but just making it a space that you move from a living room or a dining room to like be in together as you wind down from the day can be a great invitation or gateway into other states, either of sleep or sex.

Chris Rose: 32:42 The gateway to sleep and sex are open. All right, we hope this has been useful to you. We hope that you walk into your bedroom the next time you’re in your home, and look around, and think about how you might optimize it for yourself and your partner, and be in touch with us. Let us know. If you love this show and want to support our work, come on over to patreon.com/pleasuremechanics. That’s P-A-T-R-E-O-N, patreon.com/pleasuremechanics, and you have to type it all in, because we’re an adult show. We are unsearchable on Patreon, so type it all in, or click the link in the show notes page, and join us with a sustaining monthly pledge. Five bucks a month makes a huge difference in our ability to do this work and put out this show for free, week after week, so please join us at patreon.com/pleasuremechanics, and this week, you will find our lighting guide from our patron. Thank you so much, Allen, and we will be back with you next week with another episode of Speaking of Sex with the Pleasure Mechanics. I’m Chris.

Charlotte Rose: 33:54 I’m Charlotte.

Chris Rose: 33:55 We are the Pleasure Mechanics.

Charlotte Rose: 33:57 Wishing you a lifetime of pleasure.

Chris Rose: 34:00 Cheers.

Too Stressed Out For Sex?

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If you find yourself too stressed out for sex, or know that sex gets in the way of your sex life, this episode is for you. Part of our podcast mini series inspired by the book Burnout, this episode explores the crucial step of completing the stress cycle so it doesn’t interfere with your life and relationships.

We all know what it feels like to be stressed out – but far too few of us know how to actively participate in completing the stress cycle. This framework, one of the many gems from the Burnout book, helps us take more initiative in completing the stress cycle so we can return home to a place of safety, relaxation, joy, comfort, pleasure – and yes, arousal and orgasmic release.

Here’s what you need to know about completing the stress cycle – so you can begin the arousal cycle!

Speaking of Sex Episode #058:
The Missing Link In Your Sex Life

Thanks to #LubeLife for sponsoring this episode! Go to LubeLife.com and use the code 20Mechanics for 20% off your order of top quality lube.


Transcript for podcast episode Too Stressed For Sex? Here’s How To Complete The Stress Cycle

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Chris Rose: 00:00 Hello, welcome to Speaking of Sex with the Pleasure Mechanics. I’m Chris.

Charlotte Rose: 00:05 I’m Charlotte.

Chris Rose: 00:05 We are the Pleasure Mechanics. And on this podcast, we have explicit yet soulful conversations about every facet of human sexuality. Come on over to PleasureMechanics.com where you will find our complete podcast archive. And while you are there, go to PleasureMechanics.com/free and sign up for our free online course, the Erotic Essentials. It is a treasure chest of free resources and strategies for you to get started with tonight. That’s at PleasureMechanics.com/free. On today’s episode, we are going to be continuing or conversation about burnout, and how stress can interfere with your erotic experience.

Chris Rose: 00:52 Before we get started, I want to thank our sponsor for this episode, LubeLife. LubeLife creates Amazon.com’s best selling line of personal lubricants. They have water-based lube and silicone – based lube. Go to LubeLife.com or use the link in the show notes page and use the code 20Mechanics, that’s 20Mechanics, for 20% off your entire order. And if you are doing some spring cleaning this time of year, it’s a great time to refresh your lube bottle. Get a new bottle of lube at LubeLife.com. Use the code 20Mechanics for 20% off your order.

Chris Rose: 01:31 All right, my dear, my darling. So, many listeners of the show will notice we missed last week’s episode, which we very rarely do, because we were in the middle of some stressors. So this week, we’re going to be talking about … We’re going to continue the conversation that started two weeks ago with the conversation with Emily Nagoski about her new book, Burnout. And I know a lot of you have bought the book and are reading along with us. And even if you don’t even know what we’re talking about, we are going to be talking about stress and sex this week, and what you need to know about completing the stress cycle so you can have a more enjoyable life in general.

Chris Rose: 02:18 But mostly so stress does not interfere with your sex life, so your sex life is not hijacked by stress. This is a theme we have been talking about for 12 years. As soon as we started our business and we started researching sexuality and arousal and pleasure, the theme of stress came right up. And it was so clear to us that the number one enemy of sexuality is stress. We gave a talk about it in North Carolina 12 years ago, about what you need to know about stress and sex. So this is something that we’ve been aware of and we’ve been talking about. But this book and the framework of completing the stress cycle gives us some new language to really talk about how important a step this is. And if we’re missing this step as individuals or couples it might be one of the main reasons our sex life is not where we want it. Yes?

Charlotte Rose: 03:21 That’s so profound.

Chris Rose: 03:23 Do we want to talk a little bit about the past couple … why we?

Charlotte Rose: 03:26 Well we can. We were just all sick. Our kid was really ill, really ill. And we were in full on care taking mode for weeks, it was crazy.

Chris Rose: 03:34 Yeah, it was like weeks of a family stomach bug, and we were just passing it back and forth.

Charlotte Rose: 03:39 It was amazing.

Chris Rose: 03:41 It was a couple weeks of vomit and laundry. Yeah, and we tried. We tried really hard to produce a podcast for you. And between our care taking duties and then both of us being sick …

Charlotte Rose: 03:53 We thought you’d understand.

Chris Rose: 03:54 Yeah, and we had to really humble ourselves, and cancel a ton of appointments and just surrender to the illness. And it was a really good reminder of how important rest is when your body needs it. You cannot push through things sometimes, you just need to rest. So that’s what we did, and it’s been like two weeks, and we’re just emerging out of it. And now our daughter’s on spring break. She got better just in time to be on vacation, yay. But I also bring this up, so that’s partly why we missed an episode, thank you for your patience, thank you to our patrons over at Patreon for your support and love. We are back, and we’re just going to continue onwards.

Chris Rose: 04:40 So how this relates, though, is I was so aware within our relationship of the ways that we had to navigate and be in this really stressful situation together. There was nothing that was going to change the fact that all of the sheets had vomit on them.

Charlotte Rose: 05:01 In the middle of the night.

Chris Rose: 05:02 Right. And we’re all losing sleep. The situation was what it was, and our choice was how we navigated it together and as individuals, and that is what created the outcome of the two weeks. Which ended up being a very loving, sweet, restful, quiet two weeks. We did a ton of art, and painted a ton of canvases together and read a ton of books. But we managed to get through it without really fighting too much. And I think that’s a lot because we’ve been talking and reading about managing the stress cycle. So I felt like it was this kind of marathon test of what we had been learning in so many ways. Except we didn’t get to the sexy times, yet. All right.

Chris Rose: 05:50 So in her book, Burnout, the Nagoski’s … I keep saying Emily Nagoski, but it’s Emily and her twin Amelia. I don’t mean to cut Amelia out of the conversation. So in this book, the Nagoski twins, Emily and Amelia Nagoski, talk about completing the stress cycle. So I just want to lay this out really clearly, whether or not you’re read the book, on why this matters in your sex life. So completing the stress cycle is this idea that stressors, so the things that cause us stress, the lion attacking us, your job, health stuff, financial stuff, we all know what causes us stress. Those are your stressors.

Chris Rose: 06:35 Stressors exist in all of our lives. Some of them are chronic, some of them are temporary, some of theme are extreme, some of them are mild. Stressors exist. The stress it puts on our bodies … stress is the physiological reaction to a stressor. And it’s a full body, full system reaction. It’s an event. I think the Nagoski’s do a really good job laying out how much of an event … This is something that happens to your body. And it affects your cardiovascular system, your immune system, your emotional state, your ability to sleep, your personality, right? It’s a full, global event, stress is, in the body.

Chris Rose: 07:21 Wellness, happiness, joy, eroticism, depends on our ability to complete the stress cycle and return to a state of relaxation and enjoyment and relaxed awareness. And that state where the body can heal and relax and heal and complete the cycle and go back to its restful state. That is the piece that so many of us are missing. There’s plenty of stressors in the world, got that. We all experience the stress. But very few of us are as aware and active in completing the stress cycle as we need to be.

Chris Rose: 08:07 If you’re stressed out at work, and you’re stressed out because of traffic, and you’re stressed out because your job isn’t paying enough to cover the bills and all of these things, and then you come home and you just walk in the door and bring all of that with you, and then you meet your partner, and they’ve got all of their stress from the work, bouncing of each other for the whole evening. How do you get to the point where you’re ready to luxuriate in one another’s touch and take a long bath and nibble one another’s earlobes and kiss one another’s necks, and all of these techniques that we can flood you with, right? We can give you all of these ways of loving and cherishing and enjoying one another’s bodies.

Chris Rose: 08:47 But how do you get from fists clenched at the kitchen table, feeling enraged about your day, to wanting to nibble your partner’s earlobes? So that is the missing link for some people. And we have another podcast episode that’s called the missing link and we’ll put that in the show notes. But this is what we call that missing step in between your day to day activity, that stressful day you’ve had, and being able to relax enough to even want to have sex. There’s a missing step here, and this is the completing the stress cycle. And it’s different for different people. So we’re going to tell you some things that work for different people, and as you hear this, notice for yourself what you feel has worked in the past. If you’ve had a really stressful event, what helps you get out of that state? What helps you ratchet down your system and just be like, all right, things are chill now, things are okay?

Chris Rose: 09:47 So for many people, it’s movement. Movement. And we’re going to talk more about movement in future episodes. But movement can be a hard workout, it can be dancing, it can be yoga, it can be walking or running. It can be clenching and releasing your muscles rhythmically, right? Anything that moves your muscles and releases them, ideally in rhythm. But anything, and ideally to the point that you’re out of breath. Those are kind of some of the ingredients where movement can become a stress cycle completer. All right, we will be talking more about strategies for completing the stress cycle.

Chris Rose: 10:30 Before we do, I want to thank our sponsor for this episode, Lube Life. Lube is a super important ingredient in just about any erotic activity. Anytime you want a little more slip, slide, and glide in your touch, grab some lube. There is no shame in it, we all use it for all different things. So everyone should have a bottle of lube in their bedside table. Lube Life creates Amazon.com’s best selling lube. It’s a great value, and you can use the code 20Mechanics for 20% off your order. Go to LubeLife.com, use the code 20Mechanics, or use the link in our show notes page. Thank you to Lube Life for sponsoring this episode of Speaking of Sex.

Chris Rose: 11:19 All right, back to the show.

Charlotte Rose: 11:22 So this is where you get to figure out what works best for you, and everyone will have a different kind of movement that feels most cathartic or releasing or pleasurable. They named 20 minutes being an important chunk of time that most people can use to complete the cycle, but whatever works for you. Even a few minutes can feel really valuable to just let your body return to that state of calm.

Chris Rose: 11:49 And notice what happens when we talk about it as movement versus exercise. We’ve all been told we need to exercise three times a week for 20 minutes at a time. For a lot of people, that’s annoying, or just feels like another to do list, or is about what your body should look like or is about losing weight. What if you frame it as what movement can I do to help my body release stress, complete the stress cycle, and feel more relaxed afterwards? What movement would that be? Fuck the calories burned, don’t worry about it as exercise. Is that a walk where you talk to your best friend on the phone? Just think about that for yourself, where can movement fit in?

Chris Rose: 12:32 For some people, this is already a big part of their life. For other people, it feels really far away. Especially for those of us who exercise has been kind of a shameful thing. Or where movement feels activating and feels scary. For that group of us, because hello, I’m part of you. What helped for me was I did Wii Dance. I had a Wii video game system, and I started doing the dance video games, and that was really fun for me. Because I could engage, and I had biometrics, and I had a score. And video games were a more comfortable yes than dancing. So I kind of combined them.

Chris Rose: 13:13 And then discovered how much I loved to dance, and that I couldn’t be angry after I danced. I always ended up feeling better after dancing. And I’m not someone who dancing has ever been a socially approved activity as a fat butch. It’s never been given a gold star. But I discovered it, and it’s now been a super important ally for me. If I am feeling stuck, like my anger and my stress, I can always dance. So finding the movement at works for you. Social connection is another huge piece for a lot of people that completes the stress cycle.

Chris Rose: 13:54 Some people bring this home from a stressful week and want that social connection with their partner. For some couples, that can be too big of a burden. For some couples that works, and it’s like build that into your days. Some time to talk and decompress and download. But also notice, are you socially connecting? Are you looking at one another in the eye? Are you attuning with one another? Are you feeling happier as you talk? Or are you just complaining at one another? Because if you come home from work and you’re both talking at each other but you’re just complaining, you’re not completing the stress cycle, you’re just continuing it.

Chris Rose: 14:36 So notice if that is a pattern in your relationship, where you both come home stressed and then you’re like, “Bah bah bah bah, can you believe this? And blah blah blah.” And do you feel better afterwards? Usually, the answer is no. You feel just as stressed out rather than less stressed out, because you’ve reactivated rather than completed. So what social connection might be more completing, not releasing? Maybe it’s telling each other jokes, maybe it’s watching standup on Netflix for 20 minutes as you eat a bowl of popcorn and take off your work shoes. Maybe it’s the calling your best friend who you don’t want to complain to about work, but you do want to hear about her cute kids. Or maybe it’s talking to a friend at a coffee shop before you get home so you can decompress, and you bitch about with your coworker, and then you both go home with that steam released, right?

Chris Rose: 15:32 So what are the ways you can build social connection into your life as a stress cycle completer?

Charlotte Rose: 15:42 What is the role there, though, of having to release those feelings and having to communicate about the hard things, but then not getting stuck in it? I feel like that’s a complicated … because sometimes your partner is the only person you can talk about it. Is it like, okay I’m just going to vent about this for a few minutes and then we’re going to move on to a different topic, and then I’m going to shake or dance for five minutes, and then it’s like, have another conversation. I feel like there are ways to strategize around letting yourself shift out of that.

Chris Rose: 16:13 Right, and this is a bigger conversation. We’ll do other podcasts about communication styles and how we can support one another. If it’s a problem that can’t be fixed, if your stressor is a coworker whose personality you don’t get along with, who whatever. If there’s a stressor that can’t be fixed, how much venting will help. And you know it’s like, you can get into loops there. So I just think it’s like each individual has to evaluate, are these loops helpful? Do you feel vented? Or do you feel re-agitated? And to be able to determine that for yourself, and for your partner, and just be able to be like, “Babe, I don’t think this is helping, maybe this might help instead.”

Chris Rose: 16:56 That’s why having this framework, especially if you listen to these podcasts together, and both of you are aware of this, and again, one of our listeners just wrote to us with an example of now that I had this framework, I had a really shitty day at work. And when I parked the car in my driveway, instead of coming right in, I texted my partner and said, “I’ve got some stress to release, I’m walking around the block.” And he took care of a few things inside while I went for a walk. And I came in much happier. So to be able to say to one another, “You seem really stressed out, how do you need to complete that?”

Charlotte Rose: 17:36 It’s been so helpful. I feel like we’ve noticed there are times where we’re getting activated and it’s like, “I need to go complete my stress cycle, and I’ll be right back.” It’s so helpful to just see, I’m activated, I’m pissed off about whatever, or I’m hurt, let me go manage it and then return. Just having that framework is so powerful, because there’s something that we can do with it.

Chris Rose: 17:59 Well, there’s something you can do. And this is so important because a lot of us experience stress as this thing that happens to us. We are the victims of it, and there’s nothing we can do about it. This is what you can do. You can learn how your body can complete the stress cycle and then do more of it. But what this also does within a relationship is it makes really clear what the stressor is. And it asks that question, like why are you so worked up right now? Is it because of me? Or is it what happened at work the other day? Is it because of me, or is it because you got stuck in traffic for an extra hour and that fucked with your day?

Chris Rose: 18:39 Because a lot of times, we bring stress home and then we’re in the domestic space and we look at our partner and we think, if I’m feeling this pissed off, it must be you. And if we don’t name our stressors accurately, it can become really easy to think, “I’m so fucking pissed off because that towel’s on the floor again, and how many times? And bah bah bah.” And you get into your loop. Whereas if you can say, “oh my God, I had this really stressful day, I’m carrying all these stressors, I’m going to complete the cycle.” Then when I come home feeling the relief of that intense workout, feeling the relief of laughing with my friends for 20 minutes, and I walk in, and I see that towel’s on the floor again, I just pick it up, put it on the hook, and come give you a hug. Right?

Chris Rose: 19:29 What would get you to the state where you can accurately feel what you feel for your partner? Because that’s the key of this, is we’re not projecting a bunch of stressors onto our partner and then thinking it’s them. And then, it creates the space when it is them, wheen there is a behavior or an attitude or a pattern that your partner is bringing into the relationship that is a stressor, you can name it as a stressor. When this thing happens between us, it activates me, it causes me so much stress. How do we deal with that together? How do we either eliminate the stressor or recognize its impact and then build in the management of it? It’s just a much more humane way of thinking about stress and how it then influences our day to day life.

Chris Rose: 20:25 And it reveals that for so many of us, the problem sexually isn’t how much we like our partner or how their armpits smell or how they touch our clitoris, like we don’t even get the chance to feel their touch because we’re so activated and stressed out. We can’t even get to that state of do me, baby. When was the last time you were just in that relaxed state, sprawled on the sheets, ready to be done? That state feels really far away for a lot of people in your day to day life, because it’s like, as soon as you lie down, you think of the 10 other things that have to be happening. That, by that way, that hyper to do list syndrome, is part of this.

Chris Rose: 21:10 It’s not that our to do lists are too long, or there’s always more to do, that will always be true. It’s that our attention, when we’re in that stressed out state, and we haven’t completed our stress cycles, we’re searching. Our brains are searching for what needs to be fixed? What do I need to do? What needs to be accomplished? Da da da. It’s looking for the threat and the thing to complete to get back to relaxed. And so you have to do it on purpose. So the movement. Let’s get back to the things that work. So movement, social engagement.

Charlotte Rose: 21:45 Laughter.

Chris Rose: 21:46 laughter and humor are huge. And laughter, by the way, that’s social engagement, because humor is so interpersonal. And then that creates that spasm of the diaphragm, when you have a really good belly laugh. It’s kind of like running a marathon. You get all that breath and movement of all the muscles, so it’s kind of a great hybrid touch for a lot of people, it really works. It kind of taps into your hormonal system and releases an anti-stress cascade of relaxation in the body. So if you can look your partner in the eye, there’s that social connection. Take their hand or their foot and give them some loving, affectionate touch while you connect. It’s hard to complain while you’re getting a foot massage. It’s like, “And then my boss said … that feels good, just keep doing more of that.” Right?

Chris Rose: 22:43 So if you build in affectionate touch on top of the social check in, how does that work? Then sex. For some people, sex can be the stress reliever. Right? A lot of this conversation has been talking about how to relieve your stress so that you can get in the mood to even think about sex. Some people, when they’re stressed out, fucking is … that’s their movement. It’s like, screw the run, I want to fuck. And some people in some relationships can go there. And if you know that works for both of you, and you can both come home from having a stressful week, take a shower, and do your marathon in bed together, and fuck it out. And you’re moving and you’re breathing and you’re touching, and you’re socially connecting, great.

Chris Rose: 23:32 That works for like 20, 30% of people, it turns out, where that activation of stress puts you in the mood. But you have to have a partner who’s also ready to go there. Or if you’re in the mood through your stress, and your partner needs her relaxation and to go through her release cycles to meet you, then you know that, right? So so much of this is about knowing this framework and then building your own architecture of what will work for you. What is a more workable framework for your life to complete your stress cycles, manage your stressors, and be ready to enjoy more pleasure, touch, arousal, orgasm, whatever you want to build on top of that. But this is that foundational work to create the space for pleasure, to create the space for, “Yeah, let’s give each other a massage and then have sex.”

Chris Rose: 24:27 How do you say yes when you’re super stressed out? First, you have to say yes to whatever will complete your stress cycle.

Charlotte Rose: 24:34 I feel like it creates so much responsibility and independence, emotionally, because you’re able to say, “This is mine, I’m feeling this, I have to be responsible for completing this.” And then I’m in a more calm, relaxed, available state to have fun and to connect and to enjoy life with you again. It feels like such a powerful framework. We’ve just been working with it for a few weeks, since we got the book, and it is kind of life changing.

Chris Rose: 25:09 And is it just because … We’ve known this for years, but somehow about how we’ve framed it, it’s been more about do that thing that relaxes you first, and it makes it less urgent somehow.

Charlotte Rose: 25:23 Yeah, totally.

Chris Rose: 25:24 These few weeks, when I’ve been able to be like, “You need to complete the stress cycle, go to the gym.” And it’s not like, “The gym will feel nice to you honey, so go do that.” It takes the burden off of choosing a pleasure when you’re in that activated stress thing.

Charlotte Rose: 25:39 Right.

Chris Rose: 25:40 And it becomes more like, “All right, I’m in this activated stress experience, I’m noticing how it’s affecting my body, I want to get out, here’s my exit strategy.” It’s not like, “I want to go feel pleasure.” It’s like, “I want this to end.” I don’t know what subtle reframing, because we’ve known this information for years.

Charlotte Rose: 26:02 I think it is a time-based thing. Because it’s like, your body is stressed, you need to go complete this right now. Instead of, in general, it’s good to include these things in your life, where you have to prioritize it and time management becomes a piece. Whereas, you’re stressed right now, you have to do this right now to complete it. It just takes top priority in this way that it hasn’t been with a different framework. That’s how I’ve been relating to it. It’s a right now thing in my body.

Chris Rose: 26:32 Well and I think what the book does so beautifully is, it points out that once the stress has happened, the physiological impact has begun. So as soon as the stressor happens, and your blood rate goes up, and the cortisol releases, the physical event has started. And it only completes when it completes. And if it doesn’t complete, you can grind out that cycle of stress in your body for years.

Charlotte Rose: 27:00 That’s really sobering.

Chris Rose: 27:01 It kind of just reminds you that the less I complete, the more I carry. And it doesn’t go away on its own. Which can be intimidating. And especially, it intersects with a conversation around trauma, and I just want to acknowledge that. And we’re just going to set that aside. And there’s so many parallel conversations about how trauma is carried in the body, and it is similar. It’s the same, really. But we will try to stay focused on daily stressors. What do you do to release your stress at the end of the day so you don’t feel like you’re in that daily grind? That’s what we want, is just to create more space in our daily lives to recognize the stressors that are true. All of the pressures that are on us, the pressures of the world, the capitalist patriarchy, that’s all out there. And it will always be out there as we’re dismantling it. Those stressors aren’t going away.

Chris Rose: 28:03 But within that, we have to live these lives and love the people we love, and when we notice that the stress is interfering with our ability to love and be loved, it’s interfering with our ability to come home and feel like we have a safe haven in the world, and that the people who are supposed to love us can wrap their arms around us and hold us. When that is interfered with, we need to take action. That action, it turns out, can be quite simple. This movement, this social connection, the finding ways of moving our body in rhythm and breathing more. Finding ways of completing the stress cycle and managing stress can be really accessible once we know what we’re doing.

Chris Rose: 28:55 I hope that this conversation has motivated you and kind of framed up ways of taking more action in your day to day life so you can complete your stress cycles and then show up for … even if it’s just for yourself. Not even if, this isn’t second best. If it’s for yourself, for all of the relationships in your life, for the people you want to be having sex with, to be able to show up from a state that’s not activated, threat-seeking, stressed out, stress ball of hell. We all deserve better than that, and our bodies need to learn how to reset. The more we do this, the easier it gets. That pleasure/stress switch … Someone actually asked recently, they wrote in an email and asked for the medical references for that. And I’ll try to dig them out for you.

Chris Rose: 29:45 But what we know is that the more we practice flipping between these states of pleasure and relaxation, and maybe completing the stress cycle is a better language for that, right? It is cyclical. It’s like digestion, in and out, in and out. You’re never done digesting, it’s just a cycle. The more we complete the stress cycle, the more the body knows how to do that. And in the Nagoski’s book, they talk about it as wellness is a state of action. So if it’s a state of action, let’s learn how to take those actions. And what actions are most meaningful for you, as an individual. Because we all have different affinities for these things. Is it walking, running, swimming, dancing, martial arts, fucking? What is your methodology to complete the stress cycle and do more of that, and see what happens and report back.

Charlotte Rose: 30:41 Yes, let us know. Just about the action and the wellness, I love this idea that wellness is basically being able to deal with the stressors, be able to be stressed, and then return to a place of calm and rest and relaxation and that you’re able to move through these cycles with grace or completion. And that that is what keeps you well. I feel like that’s so powerful in this world, where sometimes we think we need to never be around negativity. Or things are so …

Chris Rose: 31:17 Positive vibes only.

Charlotte Rose: 31:18 Yeah.

Chris Rose: 31:19 Fuck that, yeah.

Charlotte Rose: 31:21 That’s not wellness, that’s like separation between, separation of things. It just feels very powerful to train ourselves to become more aware of our own bodies. To train ourselves, to be able to deal with life. And then return to a place of rest.

Chris Rose: 31:40 Totally.

Charlotte Rose: 31:41 Within our own bodies, and our own body’s ecosystem. And that we are responsible of that, and we can orchestrate that for ourselves. I just find that so powerful and exciting in a bigger way that we don’t have to go into now. But I feel like it’s inspiring, and I want us all to have that capacity with our own bodies, because what it makes available for the people around us is really profound. They get more of us, more of the good parts of us, and we are able to deal with the hard parts individually. And that’s awesome, and in connection with community, but really be able to ask for what we need. I think it’s so exciting.

Chris Rose: 32:19 Yeah, yeah. And I think this completing the stress cycle is one of those … It’s a chapter out of the how to be human handbook that we never got. For me, this is one of those just foundational frameworks that changes how I walk in the world, how I interact with other humans. A friend just posted on Facebook, “oh my God I was just at a stop light and someone was waving a gun around at the intersection and I’m totally freaked out, and I’m on the way to this really important meeting.” And I’m like … blah blah blah. And I just posted really quickly, “Walk around the block, and run and shake and move.” And she wrote me later how useful that was. And I was able just to remind her of this human thing.

Chris Rose: 33:07 This stressful thing just happened, finish it. Move. And just notice what happens when you start deploying this in your life. We’re excited for you, we’re excited for the people in your life. We’re grateful to the Nagoski’s for bringing so much of this knowledge together in this book. If you have not yet joined us in reading Burnout, there is still time. Grab a copy of Burnout, I’ll put the link in the show notes page. Or just join us this month for conversations about the stress cycle and sexuality. We’re going to be talking about how to create those erotic havens in our lives. More strategies for making sure stress does not interfere with your sex life. And how to tune into pleasure. How do we pay attention to pleasure? All of that is coming up on future episodes of Speaking of Sex with the Pleasure Mechanics.

Chris Rose: 33:58 Be sure to subscribe on your platform of choice so you never miss an episode. Rate and review us on iTunes if you wish. And if you’d like to be part of our inner circle, come on over to Patreon.com/PleasureMechanics. That’s P-A-T-R-E-O-N, Patreon.com/PleasureMechanics. And join us with a monthly pledge, and become part of our inner circle for ad-free episodes, bonus episodes, bonus resources, direct access to us, and more. We’d love to see you there. Come on over to Patreon.com/PleasureMechanics. And of course, our home on the web will always be PleasureMechanics.com. I’m Chris.

Charlotte Rose: 34:44 I’m Charlotte.

Chris Rose: 34:45 We are the Pleasure Mechanics.

Charlotte Rose: 34:47 Wishing you a lifetime of pleasure.

Chris Rose: 34:50 Cheers.

Burnout : The Stress & Sex Connection Interview with Emily Nagoski

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Do you ever feel like the daily grind is grinding you down? Burnout – the feeling of never enoughness, of being locked in a non-feeling state of perpetual motion, of feeling like there is no candle left to burn from either end – is the lived experience of so many of us. Burnout is real – but so are the solutions, both personal and collective, that will lead us into a more honest and vibrant relationship with our lives.

Let’s start practicing the solutions, together. Join The Pleasure Pod to unlock our Pleasure Practices library and other member-only resources!

In this episode we cover:

  • the stress cycle: what it is and why it needs to be completed
  • the most efficient ways to complete your daily stress cycles
  • the hidden costs of accumulated stress
  • how the stress cycle impacts our ability to enjoy sex, relaxed intimacy and affectionate touch
  • the meaning of finding meaning
  • the importance of communal joy
  • why self care is ultimately about social justice
  • the Human Giver Syndrome – what it is, who has it and how we cure it together
  • how addressing your burnout can help ignite your eroticism

This book is a GAME CHANGER – an answer to the underlying issue that drives so many of our collective struggles: Burnout. If you have ever felt complete overwhelm, a mounting state of despair and a sense of disconnection, you’ve felt the impact of Burnout. 


Check out our interview with Emily Nagoski about sexuality, female orgasm and her book Come As You Are

The Emily Nagoski Interview Encore Podcast Episode

Get more info about the book Burnout: the secret to unlocking the stress cycle from Penguin Random House


Transcription of Podcast Episode: Burnout Interview with Emily Nagoski

Podcast transcripts are generated with love by humans, and thus may not be 100% accurate. Time stamps are included so you can cross reference or jump to any point in the podcast episode above. THANKS to the members of our Pleasure Pod for helping make transcripts and the rest of our free offerings happen! If you love what we offer, find ways to show your love and dive deeper with us here: SHOW SOME LOVE

Chris Rose: 00:00 Hi, welcome to Speaking of Sex With the Pleasure Mechanics. This is Chris from pleasuremechanics.com and on today’s episode, I am thrilled to bring you a conversation with Emily Nagoski. Emily Nagoski is author of one of our favorite sex books ever, ‘Come as You Are’. She’s been on the podcast before from a two-part episode about the surprising science of sex and we’ll link to that in the show note’s page. Because if you are new to Emily Nagoski’s work, you will definitely want to check that out.

Chris Rose: 00:36 Today, she’s here to talk about her new book, ‘Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle’. We talk all about how stress and sexuality are connected, how we all struggle in this culture to complete our stress cycle and find a sense of purpose and joy and belonging. It is an amazing book and we loved it so much, for the next four episodes of Speaking of Sex, we are going to be diving into a little miniseries, a four-episode exploration of the themes that emerge through ‘Burnout’ and this conversation around stress and sexuality. You can find all of our ‘Burnout’ episodes and resources at pleasuremechanics.com/burnout and join our free online course at pleasuremechanics.com/free.

Chris Rose: 01:31 All right, here we go with my interview Emily Nagoski. Welcome to the Speaking of Sex miniseries on sexual burnout.

Chris Rose: 01:41 Emily Nagoski, welcome to Speaking of Sex.

Emily Nagoski: 01:44 I’m so excited to be here.

Chris Rose: 01:45 I should say welcome back because you’ve been on the show before about your first book, ‘Come as You Are’, which is now widely considered to be one of the most important sex books in the field.

Emily Nagoski: 01:56 Is it?

Chris Rose: 01:57 Yes.

Emily Nagoski: 01:57 Wow.

Chris Rose: 01:59 I’m glad to be the one to tell you that. We refer it all the time. It’s one of those books that both professionals and our wide audience both say they have so many ah-ha moments with. Even they start with our interview with you on the podcast and then get the book and were like, “I have no idea how normal I was, how common these struggles I feel are, and how explainable they are.”

Emily Nagoski: 02:25 Yeah.

Chris Rose: 02:26 For anyone who doesn’t have ‘Come as You Are’ on your bookshelf, please get it now and while you’re there, order Emily’s second book, ‘Burnout’. I am so excited to talk to you about this book because you announced the topic of this book a few years ago and I would love to hear your journey of how did you go from writing this book about female sexuality and the science of sexuality to a book about burnout? What is burnout and what’s that link?

Emily Nagoski: 02:54 That’s an hour right there.

Chris Rose: 02:56 Yeah.

Emily Nagoski: 02:57 There’s an origin story here. The usual next step for someone who’s written a book about women’s sexuality would be to write a book about men’s sexuality or couple’s sexuality or something like that, or relationships. When I was traveling around talking to people about ‘Come as You Are’ and the science of women’s sexual wellbeing, people were not saying to me, “Oh, could you write a book about men? Could you write a book about couples?” What they were saying was, “Yeah, Emily, all that sex science that’s really great, but you know what was really important to me was that chapter on feelings and stress.”

Chris Rose: 03:32 Yep.

Emily Nagoski: 03:34 I was surprised. I worked so hard on the sex science and people do appreciate that, but over and over it kept coming back, “You know what really changed my life was that chapter on stress.” I have an identical twin sister and I told her about this. She is a choral conductor who is a conservatory-trained, performance musician. I was like, “When I talk to people they’re like, ‘What really matters to me is this stress part.'” She was like, “No duh.” Because whoever teaches us how to feel our feelings? We grew up in a family that was pretty dysfunctional and we had to learn how to have feelings out of books.

Emily Nagoski: 04:16 I got a master’s degree in counseling psychology. She got a master’s degree in choral conducting. At a certain point, we realized we both got master’s degrees in how to listen and feel feelings, which probably says something about what we left home needing still. She had really struggled in grad school, so we were having this conversation and she said, “You know what? What I finally learned this whole completing the stress response cycle thing, I’m pretty sure it saved my life,” she said. Then, she looked at me and she goes, “Twice.”

Emily Nagoski: 04:48 That was the point when I was like, “Okay. Well, we should write a book about that.” That’s when we decided. It was October of 2015 that we had our first meeting with my literary agent about the next book is not going to be a book about men or relationships. It’s going to be about stress and women.

Chris Rose: 05:05 How timely its release now. I think in the past few years, this conversation about the toll of stress on our bodies, on our relationships, on our creativity, the conversations about gender imbalance of the daily micro-stress, about micro-traumas, all of this conversation has come to the surface in such a big way. This book lands on our laps like a revelation.

Chris Rose: 05:34 I cried when I read it. I’m just going to be totally honest with you. I opened up the pdf you sent and I cried because so much of our conversations with people are getting couples past this hump so they can be in this zone of enjoyment and pleasure together. We realized we had been talking to people for years about the enjoyment phase of sex when you can be in that sensuality, when you can be in pleasure, but that is inaccessible without this book, without the knowledge, the wisdom-

Emily Nagoski: 06:05 Without them dealing with the stress, yeah.

Chris Rose: 06:06 Yeah. So talk to us about that. What is the stress response cycle? What do we need to know about completing it?

Emily Nagoski: 06:12 Okay. There’s two parts I want to talk about. One is the stress response cycle and the other is the gender dynamic that traps women in particular in their stress. The stress response cycle … And, this is in ‘Come as You Are’, and it’s chapter one of ‘Burnout’. Physiologically stress is not just a stress response like you’re confronted with a stressor and that activates stress. It is a stress response cycle. In the environment where we evolved, our stress response was to help us deal with things like being chased by a lion or charged by a hippo.

Emily Nagoski: 06:46 Did you know hippos are the most dangerous land mammals on Earth?

Chris Rose: 06:49 Terrifying.

Emily Nagoski: 06:50 Hippos. You’re being charged by a hippo and your body sees this threat approaching you and it floods you with cortisol and adrenaline and changes your digestive system and your immune system and your hormones. Every body system is affected by this threat coming toward you. All of these changes are in preparation to make you do one thing which is to run like Hell to get away from that threat.

Emily Nagoski: 07:17 So, that’s what you do. At that point, there’s only two possible outcomes. Either you get eaten by the lion or trampled by the hippo or you make it home. You run back to your village and somebody opens the door and you slip right in and the hippo can pound against the wall but can’t to get you. You are safe. You jump up and down and you hug the person who just saved your life. That is the complete stress response cycle.

Emily Nagoski: 07:46 It is not, you’ll notice, getting rid of the stressor, the threat. It is getting through the stress response cycle by doing what your body is telling you to do in order to get to a safe place. These days, we are alas really very rarely charged by hippos. Instead, our stressors are things like our boss and our kids and our sexuality and our body image and traffic. Those are not things that you can literally, physically escape or can you literally physically fight them.

Emily Nagoski: 08:19 I’m an advocate for healthy expressions of rage, but you’re actually not allowed to punch anybody in the face, which is what your body wants you to do. The question is, how do we complete the stress response cycle itself when dealing with a stressor doesn’t do the trick? ‘Cause that’s the hard part, right? You’re confronted with your boss who’s kind of an asshole and your body responds with exactly the same physiological response, the adrenaline and the cortisol and glycogen, oh, my! And, your body wants to get up and run or punch him in the face or whatever, but it’s-

Chris Rose: 08:58 And, most of us have layers of daily, chronic stressors.

Emily Nagoski: 09:02 It’s happening every single day that you have just the little things. Like your kids won’t put on their shoes and you stand over them and you tap your toe and you’re a good parent. Then, they put on their shoes and then you’re five minutes late for work. Then, your boss is a dick about it. It just accumulates and builds up. You’ve got all this stress living in your body and you manage it because you are a grownup and that is what we do, is we manage all of our stressors. Just because you’re managing your stressors doesn’t mean you’re managing the stress itself, the physiological change in your body.

Chris Rose: 09:35 You mentioned there finding the place of safety and then the jumping up and down. Can you bring us into those two moments? So, the safety piece and the movement piece, what are those about?

Emily Nagoski: 09:45 What the physiology of the stress response is saying is your body’s not a safe place right now. You need to do something to move your body into a safe place. You arrive in a place of social connection with someone you love and trust with safe walls around you. And, you’ve already done the running, so physical activity. When you’re being chased by a lion, what do you do? You run. When you are stressed out by your boss and parenting and political world and everything else, what do you do? You run.

Emily Nagoski: 10:17 Physical activity, any movement of any kind is the most efficient strategy. the language your body speaks is body language and what it wants is to move. It doesn’t have to be running. It can be dancing it out in your living room. It can be a Zumba class. It can be literally just jumping up and down. It can be lying in bed still and just tensing all of your muscles as hard as you can. Physical activity is the most efficient way, but there’s also, as the story points out, social connection is an incredibly important stress completing process for humans.

Emily Nagoski: 10:53 We are massively social species. We are basically a hive species. We’re a herd species. We are only safe when we are with our tribe. If you run to safety but you’re still alone, that’s not fully complete. When you run to safety and arrive to some loving affectionate other … in the book Amelia I call it the ‘bubble of love’ … then your body can relax because it knows you are safe with your tribe. This can take the form of small stuff. You know what? Just a happy little chat with your barista, a pleasant ‘hey, how are you doing’ with your seatmate on a train.

Emily Nagoski: 11:31 I know people believe that everybody wants to sit in silence on a train, but it turns out they’ve done research on this, and even though people believe that, if you actually have just a simple polite conversation, people feel better. Both people feel better if they’ve just had that little bit of social connection. It also can take the form of deeper intimacy like a 20-second hug is one of the recommendations. You wrap your arms around your partner and you just hold each other for 20 seconds in a row. That’s a long time to hug, but what happens is that it teaches your body that you are now in a safe place, you are in a place of safety.

Emily Nagoski: 12:11 Of course, this assumes that your partner is a safe enough person whom you can hold for 20 seconds in a row, which is sort of the point of the exercise. John Gottman recommends a six-second daily kiss. Again, that could be an awkwardly long … That’s not six one-second kisses, that’s one six-second kiss. You got to really like and trust your partner in order to make that a thing that can happen in your life. So, it reminds you. It sets your body in this place of safety and connection that I have this place to fall back on when things go wrong. I have a home to come to at the end of a difficult, stressful day.

Emily Nagoski: 12:50 That completes the cycle. It transitions you out of my body is not safe into a place of I am safe and at home now.

Chris Rose: 12:58 What do we know about the science of the connection between that physical embodied feeling of feeling safe and at home with things like desires and willingness to be erotic?

Emily Nagoski: 13:13 On the one hand, we know a lot. On the other hand, we know barely anything. We know for sure that a feeling of safety is pretty necessary for a lot of people to experience pleasure. Desire’s a little more complicated. 10 to 20% of people actually experience an increase in interest in sex when they are in a place of negative affect, stress, depression, anxiety, loneliness, despair, repressed rage. We’ve all got it. The other 80 to 90% experience no change or else a reduction in their interest in sex. The second makes clear linear sense in the sense of is being chased by a lion a good time to be interested in sex? Probably not, right?

Emily Nagoski: 14:01 Clearly, when you’re feeling stressed out, having sex go away makes sense. But, it turns out for some people, our brains are just wired a little differently. Stress crosses into the activation of the sexual response. It does not increase sexual pleasure. In fact, it might reduce it, but it increases interest in sex because there’s an overall increase in arousability or sensitivity to having all the accelerators in your central nervous system activated. This actually puts people at increased risk for sexual compulsivity or risk-taking behavior that they would not engage in if they were not in a place of negative emotion.

Emily Nagoski: 14:45 The find themselves using sex as a way to manage their stress, depression, anxiety, loneliness instead of using these healthy things. It’s not bad until it feels like you are no longer in control of your sexuality. Your sexuality is control of you.

Chris Rose: 15:03 Again, the scientific knowledge and then self-mapping that onto your reality, I just talked to a guy who recognized he was doing just that. Using sex to relieve stress and using other people in that process. So, he started martial arts and-

Emily Nagoski: 15:21 Hooray!

Chris Rose: 15:21 … it transformed him. Yes, ’cause he had that physical outlet. It was like the touch, the rough, the rumbling around. Then he was like, “And, then I felt like I could choose when I wanted sex for other reasons.” It was like beautiful.

Emily Nagoski: 15:34 Yeah. Specifically, about martial arts, you mentioned the rough and tumble. Play is a primary process that is as natural to humans as sex, which is to say that it comes and goes depending on the context. But rough and tumble play and story play are both innate to humans and they fulfill something really deep inside us the same way that sex can. We can use sex as story play and as rough and tumble play, but if we’re getting enough access to play, that’s another way that we can help to transition out of the stress response cycle into relaxation.

Emily Nagoski: 16:07 We can complete that response cycle through play, rough and tumble play with your kids. Going on a bike race. Or, story play. Acting, creative self-expression, writing, story-telling, those are all other effective ways to complete the stress response cycle.

Chris Rose: 16:25 Okay, so we’re talking about this experience. So many people are now feeling that so deeply like, “Yes, this makes sense to me.” It makes sense to so many of us because it is not an individual experience, it is a cultural … I don’t know if you want to call it an epidemic. It’s a cultural moment we’re in where so many of us are locked in this stress response cycle.

Emily Nagoski: 16:49 I don’t think it’s even close to new. I think what’s new is that we’re noticing it and deciding that it’s actually not okay at all.

Chris Rose: 16:59 Do you think it’s accelerating with ever-on technology, with the pace of modern life? Do you think it’s more a problem now than it was 100 years ago?

Emily Nagoski: 17:10 I just don’t know ’cause 100 years ago we didn’t have antibiotics as well as not having phones. It’s really hard to be able … Our food environment was totally different and it’s impossible to compare. But, one thing that has stayed shockingly the same is this thing that Amelia and I call Human Giver Syndrome on the book.

Chris Rose: 17:32 Tell me ’cause I think I have it. Tell me.

Emily Nagoski: 17:36 Yeah.

Chris Rose: 17:37 What is Human Giver Syndrome?

Emily Nagoski: 17:40 We take the term from this book I highly recommend to everyone on Earth. It’s called ‘Down Girl, The Logic of Misogyny’ by a moral philosopher names Kate Manne, M-A-N-N-E. It’s really short but pretty dark. She suggests a world where hypothetically there’s two kinds of people. There are the human beings who have a moral obligation to be their full humanity, the human beings. Then, there’s the human givers who have a moral obligation to give their full humanity to the beings every moment of their time, every drop of their energy, their attention, their love, even their bodies. They’re morally obliged to give everything in service of the beings.

Emily Nagoski: 18:30 Guess which one women are? In this thing that we call Human Giver Syndrome, we have this belief that women have a moral obligation to be pretty, happy, calm, generous, and attentive to the need of others, which includes not expressing any emotional needs of their own. We smile and are nice and try not to make anybody uncomfortable. In order to do that, we are not completing our stress response cycles ’cause we’re not allowed to. There is no space for us to express our fear, to move our bodies, to purge our rage.

Emily Nagoski: 19:10 If Amelia and I had set out to design a system to burn out half the population, we could not have designed anything more efficient. ‘Cause women are trapped in this role of smiling and being pretty and nice and not imposing any of their emotional needs on anybody. It is amazing to me how the Me Too movement keeps having the narrative switched onto look at what you’re doing to the men. Because women aren’t allowed to talk about their own feelings, their own personal experience. We just ignore that.

Emily Nagoski: 19:43 That’s not what the story is about. That can’t be what the story is about. ‘Cause women, that’s not part of how we think about women are too emotionally needy, which we’re not allowed to have any emotional needs. Of course, we feel stuck in the middle of all of these emotions and they’re setting up camp in our bodies. Everybody has a sense of what organs their stress lives in. It’s my digestive system. For Amelia, it’s her joints, her back, and her knees. Some people get migraine headaches.

Emily Nagoski: 20:14 Your stress changes your physiology. Emotions aren’t like these things, these ideas. They are physical events that happen in your physical body and they degrade your health. I have lost count of the number of people who told me, the number of women who’ve told me that they ended up in the hospital because of stress-induced illness and that includes my sister.

Chris Rose: 20:38 To broaden this out, it’s women and then it’s compounded by things like race, class, education-

Emily Nagoski: 20:45 Oh, God, yes.

Chris Rose: 20:46 … environment, where you live, environmental toxins. Yeah. Yeah.

Emily Nagoski: 20:52 Yeah, human givers … The book itself is about gender, but she very clearly acknowledges the ways that people of color in the United States especially, but all over the world, are expected to smile and be nice and accept their own servitude. When we tell stories like in the media about people of color, the stories we celebrate are the times when people of color forgive white people or rise above it. The shooting in the church in South Carolina, we told these celebratory stories about how forgiving these Christians were of this boy who killed so many members of their community, which is a beautiful thing and nobody has a right to expect that of anybody.

Emily Nagoski: 21:43 People are allowed to be enraged and despairing when tragedy strikes their life. How many of us would feel equally comfortable … I’m talking in particular about white people like me. How many of us would feel genuinely, equally comfortable with an expression of rage and despair from the black community at this kind of violence as opposed to forgiveness and generosity and Christian spirit and rising above? I think that the more we can do to create space for the rage and despair of the people who have over generations pulled themselves against white people’s will into a position of any sort of power to have a conversation with us … We need to create space for them to have all the feelings that they have. It’s our moral duty. It is our obligation to allow all of that stuff to complete and to bear witness to the pain that has been inflicted over generations.

Emily Nagoski: 22:45 Am I getting too preachy about this?

Chris Rose: 22:49 I came to this middle section of the book and I said hallelujah out loud because you put in this book these issues of the chronic micro-stressors, the chronic daily traumas that so many people have to embody. It’s a conversation that has been missing from a lot of the self-care narrative of take a bubble bath and it will be okay. Not okay if there’s not food in the pantry for my kids.

Emily Nagoski: 23:17 Right. I talk about you close the door and you’re in a place of safety. What if there’s no such thing as a place of safety for your body in this society? What if you’re a trans woman of color in the United States? Where do you go? where do you put your body where your body is actually going to be genuinely safe? There’s going to be just little narrowly defined places where you can feel genuinely safe.

Emily Nagoski: 23:40 One of the things, I talk about it in the book, is you can gradually build up a way that your body can be a safe place for you to be even when your body is not in a safe place. The more you can build that sense of relationship with your own body … and, it happens most efficiently when you build it in connection with safe people in that bubble of love we talked about … the more you can be protected and inoculated against the noxious environment in which you have to put your body every day to live.

Chris Rose: 24:19 Can you explain this to me? I was thinking the other day of how especially when we get involved in movements or in social causes, we can do extraordinary feats of labor and come home at the end of the day and feel energized and joyous and great. Then, in other moments, especially if we’re doing work we resent or we don’t feel seen for, it doesn’t even have to be that much exertion and we can feel so depleted. So many of us want to rise to get involved but we feel like, “God, I can barely make it through my own day.”

Emily Nagoski: 24:54 Yes.

Chris Rose: 24:56 What is the purpose of tapping into something bigger?

Emily Nagoski: 25:00 Yeah. Okay. The first three chapters of the book are in a section we call ‘What You Take With You’, which is … It’s the Star Wars reference of Luke asking Yoda about the cave, what’s in there. And, Yoda says, “Only what you take with you.” He’s talking about so what is it inside you that you’re going to carry with you into this battle? It’s both the good stuff and the not-so-good stuff. The things we carry are our stress response cycle that lives in our body, our capacity to experience frustration, grief, and joy, and the third thing is our sense of meaning and purpose. We call it your ‘Something Larger’.

Emily Nagoski: 25:39 Meaning is not something you find generally. It is something you make. You make meaning by connecting with something larger than yourself. Sometimes that’s a spiritual something larger, like a God you believe in. Sometimes it is a cultural or ideological something larger, politics or science. Sometimes it’s a social something larger like your family. Sometimes it’s a combination of those things. Sometimes it’s something else entirely. For my sister, it’s art. You find the thing that brings you meaning. There’s a series of three different exercises you can do if you don’t know what your something larger is.

Emily Nagoski: 26:18 You connect with your something larger and that brings you a sense of meaning which makes it easier to continue working hard. There are some days when the ways we engage with our something larger feel intensely rewarding and we really see the difference that we made. Those are the days when we get home and we’re like, “Yeah! I did it.” Even though we haven’t completely … Racism isn’t over. Sexism isn’t over. Not everybody’s having all are orgasms they want to have. Our job isn’t done yet, but we made progress today. Then, there are the days when you work really hard and you’re trying to engage with your something larger and you just don’t feel like you’ve done anything and you feel on empty.

Emily Nagoski: 27:03 Here’s the difficulty. The thing is, when that happens, it’s usually because we’re trying to get our sense of connection with our something larger from something outside of us. When, in fact, our something large is not actually something out there. It’s not actually the God out there or the art out there or the science out there or the kids out there. Our something larger lives inside us. It is the representation of art and science and political change and the environment and our kids that lives inside us so that when bad things happen, it can feel like we’re losing contact with it.

Emily Nagoski: 27:40 I use this analogy in the book that when you’re in an airplane and you hit a pocket of turbulence, you grab onto your chair as if you could hold the plane still by holding onto the chair. You know that that’s not how it works, but your hands don’t know that that’s how it works. Your hands are pretty sure if you grab onto the chair, you’re going to be holding onto something really important. That’s what happens during windows of turbulence in our lives. We grab onto our something larger and hold onto it and it helps the same way that holding onto your chair helps during turbulence.

Emily Nagoski: 28:15 When things get really bad, when tragedy strikes, when really terrible things happen, when the plane crashes, it can feel like we’ve lost contact entirely with our something larger and that’s never actually true. Only if we believe our something larger is outside of us so we really lose contact. When people reconnect with the something larger as it lives inside them, then the fire can never go out. Does that make sense?

Chris Rose: 28:45 Is this a feeling of that belonging feeling? We talked about the very physical embodied feeling of safety and belonging, is what we’re talking about a sense of belonging in the human family?

Emily Nagoski: 29:01 We actually had a really hard time separating the meaning chapter from the connection chapter, in fact. Yeah. A lot of the research there’s this one, I can’t tell if it’s desperately sad or hilarious, study where okay, so you’re a subject in a study and you’re supposed to make a greeting video for your partner who’s in a different room and they’re making a greeting video for you. Then, you watch your partner’s welcome video. Hi, we’re about to be partners. Then, your partner watches your video of them. Your partner watches your video of yourself. Then, you get word back ’cause you’ve been in different rooms all this time.

Emily Nagoski: 29:39 The researcher comes back and says, “Hey, your partner had to leave. They had an emergency.” Or, they say, “Hey, your partner had to leave. They decided they did not want to participate with you. Could you do this one more thing? Just take this one little survey for us?” The survey is an assessment of a person’s sense of meaning and purpose in life. As simple and small a feeling of social rejection as not being welcomed into an experiment with a stranger significantly reduces a person’s sense of purpose and meaning. Our sense of meaning is absolutely connected to our feeling of being welcomed into connection with other people.

Emily Nagoski: 30:28 ‘Cause most of our something largers are about service to our community, to the people we care about. If we’re not allowed to be part of that. If we’re not welcome as part of our community, what purpose is there?

Chris Rose: 30:45 Right now, I know when we talked about the Human Giver Syndrome, we talked about the role of gender there. Right now, I’m thinking about the rejection so many men are feeling right now and just acknowledging the hurt in them often comes from this disconnection with a sense of purpose because they’ve been told their humanity, their manhood, their worthiness is connected to their careers and their erections primarily.

Emily Nagoski: 31:13 Their ability to get access to women’s bodies.

Chris Rose: 31:17 Through their worthiness, right?

Emily Nagoski: 31:18 Yeah, yeah. They can measure their value on Earth by whether or not a woman says yes to them.

Chris Rose: 31:25 As a sex scientist, does it surprise you that we’re having these conversations? If someone just tuned in in the middle of this podcast, if it was on public radio, they might think they’re talking to two spiritual explorers. We’re talking about some really big ideas, but you come at this through the science, through the evidence. How are you thinking? How are you feeling about you’re about to … I think this book is going to be very popular and I hope you have lots of interviews about it in the coming months. How are you straddling this line between science and these bigger questions of belonging and human joy?

Emily Nagoski: 32:04 You know, it’s interesting. Most of the places where I get interviewed, nobody cares about the science, nobody wants to talk about the science, which is fine. I am happy not to talk about the science if that’s not what’s going to persuade people. If I’ve learned anything over the last … No, I’ve learned so much over the last five years, I can’t say that. One of the important things I’ve learned over the last five years is that very few people are big ole nerds like me. Very few people are really excited to talk about the brain science underlying the sense of meaning and purpose. Very few people want to talk about the neurochemistry and the rat research about gendered experiences of stress. Mostly they just want ideas and help.

Emily Nagoski: 32:47 People want help enormously and we trimmed the book hard in order to get it really focused on helping people feel better so that they could do something to get out of these traps.

Chris Rose: 32:59 Can we please put out a geek version?

Emily Nagoski: 33:03 We cut-

Chris Rose: 33:04 Director’s cut?

Emily Nagoski: 33:07 … more than twice as much actual … Yeah, there’s at least 100,000 words of stuff we cut including most … Including a lot of the trauma stuff.

Chris Rose: 33:15 That’s another book waiting. It’s another book.

Emily Nagoski: 33:16 Yeah.

Chris Rose: 33:17 Because I hear you saying that about science, but I also feel like when people have these ah-ha moments, like when we explain the dual model control of arousal for example, and they can map it … And, you do such an amazing job telling stories around the science. Because when people can map this and feel the truth of this in their bodies, it helps them feel more human.

Emily Nagoski: 33:39 Yeah. And, we do talk about the … Neither Amelia nor I could tolerate talking about … Because neither of us is a person of faith. We are not and I know that a lot of self-help books lean hard on the author’s face. We have this chapter on meaning and we talk about how spirituality and connection with God can be a source of meaning and purpose. It can also be a way to complete the stress response cycle. A lot of people experience their connection with the divine as a loving presence that helps them to feel safe. The reason we say people experience that is because they’re accessing the loving, kindness, and compassion inside their own brain, which is changing their biochemistry. It’s changing how their brain works. It’s reducing the stress hormones in their brain when they pray.

Emily Nagoski: 34:32 When you feel supported and loved, it doesn’t matter why. The fact is, that feeling is real. It’s happening in your body and it’s good for you.

Chris Rose: 34:42 You give these options for how to access it. One of the ways we’ve been talking about it is communal joy.

Emily Nagoski: 34:48 Yes.

Chris Rose: 34:48 What is the space of communal joy and that could be birdwatching, right?

Emily Nagoski: 34:53 No, it literally … Yes, most of the examples we give tend to be musical ’cause that’s where Amelia lives.

Chris Rose: 35:01 I was watching a Taylor Swift concert on Netflix the other day just to see what the vibe was like and I was like, “Oh, these teenagers, these young people are experiencing communal joy.”

Emily Nagoski: 35:12 Yeah.

Chris Rose: 35:13 And, we flock to these experiences and sometimes it’s like, “Why do you pay so much money for music you could listen to at home?” We go. I also think about the constellations of pleasure and how do we follow our constellations of pleasure to these places where we feel at home?

Emily Nagoski: 35:31 Yeah.

Chris Rose: 35:31 That could be a video game world competition where you’re … So many of us have not been told to pursue communal joy.

Emily Nagoski: 35:42 Yeah, we don’t even name it as the thing that it is. If I had to name a one thing that is the opposite of burnout, it’s that experience of communal joy. It is literally moving your body in time with other people for a shared purpose. That could be a Taylor Swift concert. It could be singing in church. It could be our rugby team. It could be a Black Lives Matter march. Moving your body in time with other people for a shared purpose brings together all of the things that are most important for fighting burnout. It is physical activity. It is social connection. It is a sense of meaning and purpose. It is the ultimate battery charger. It is the ultimate counterweight against burnout.

Emily Nagoski: 36:38 The only other thing that’s as powerful as rhythmic movement of your body with other people for a shared purpose, the only other thing that’s as powerful is sleep.

Chris Rose: 36:50 I love that answer. I was waiting with bated breath like, “What is it going to be?”

Emily Nagoski: 36:54 What is it?

Chris Rose: 36:55 My two favorite things. And, why sleep?

Emily Nagoski: 36:58 [inaudible 00:36:58].

Chris Rose: 36:58 what does sleep offer?

Emily Nagoski: 36:59 What I love about the shared movement is you don’t … You need to spend a lot of your life asleep. You spend a third of your life asleep, but you only need to do this shared rhythmic thing occasionally, just big moments of it scattered through your year can be enough to maintain a battery charge.

Chris Rose: 37:20 Yes, and I’m also … I’ve started this practice of finding little moments of connection and joy with random people throughout the day. Like you said, the barista, the cashier. I am amazed at how profound those moments are adding up to be. When we recognize, “Oh, you’re a human in a room with me and we both matter.” This is where it’s taking me and the connection then to sexuality. People just feeling, seen, and appreciated especially those bodies that are not seen and appreciated and loved and honored and cherished day to day.

Emily Nagoski: 37:55 Yes.

Chris Rose: 37:56 Bringing some extra love to those interactions has been so life-changing to me.

Emily Nagoski: 38:02 This is one of the places where the science just barely exists for five years maybe 10 years worth of two-person neuroscience where they measured two people’s brains simultaneously while they’re engaged in some sort of shared activity. It turns out what it takes to get two people’s brains to begin in training, which is to say moving at the same rhythm is mere co-presence. Two bodies sharing a physical space will automatically begin to change each other. We are always co-regulating each other all of the time.

Emily Nagoski: 38:38 One of the reasons an introvert like me finds New York or another big city really challenging is that we are all co-regulating each other all the time so I’m feeling the energy and moods and state of mind of all of these bodies around me all the time. They’re regulating me even as I am regulating them. Whereas when I just have a couple of people around me, that’s not too intense and overwhelming an amount of people, which is different from-

Chris Rose: 39:06 I also suspect you choose people who know how to self-regulate.

Emily Nagoski: 39:09 Yeah. Yes. I’m pretty specific and I’m also totally fine when I’m teaching because when you’re in a leadership position, your job is to help the whole group entrain into one big unit. It’s just one pulse instead of being 70 different people’s pulses. You just get everybody in the room moving at one shared rhythm. Amelia does that for a living as a choral conductor, obviously. And, it turns out I do the same thing as a sex educator. I’ve got a group of therapists and needed them to come with me into some deep science, which means I need to get their heartbeats all beating at the same pace as mine.

Chris Rose: 39:49 Okay. So this has been hour one of our conversation about burnout. Thank you so much for this. Can you just bring it home to the bedroom? I really feel like this book is the how-to manual human bodies need right now. If one was to take this book seriously and pull these strategies into our lives and project a year out of embodying these strategies, what would you expect to change in someone’s sex life?

Emily Nagoski: 40:18 Oh, my gosh. Can they read both books? Can I imagine if they read both?

Chris Rose: 40:24 Yes. They’re next to each other on your bedside table, yes.

Emily Nagoski: 40:28 Perfect. They actually go. The covers of the American books are very coordinated. That’s not on purpose. What would happen in a year if you practice the things in the book is your physiological state would down-regulate a couple of notches. Whatever level of stress you feel right now, imagine I gradually just … Just gets a little … Your body gets softer, your muscles get more flexible and responsive, your sleep gets deeper and more restorative, your ability to make eye contact and engage kindly and compassionately with all humans will grow more powerful, and that includes with the people with whom you share your life. If that’s your children, yes, more patience, more kindness, more smile and laughter, less …

Emily Nagoski: 41:25 And, with your partner, more patience, more kindness, more laughter. It also means the sex you have may or may not be more spontaneous. There’ll probably, I hope, be more physical affection even if it’s not sexual. More hugging, more kissing, more holding hands and sitting next to each other, which builds a foundation, a bedrock of friendship and trust on which you can build an erotic connection that’s as comforting or as exploratory and wild as you and your partner feel good building together. The reason I want people to read both is so that they can play with what counts as sexual for them.

Emily Nagoski: 42:13 It’s not just about building safety and trust. It is about building and safety and trust but from there, launching into exploration. The other thing I did this year, which I probably should have mentioned earlier, is there’s now going to be a workbook to go with ‘Come as You Are’. It’s called ‘The Come as You Are Workbook’. It’s coming out in June. It includes worksheets where people think through their sexual history and their breaks and accelerators like you were talking about. I talk about the rituals of play and homecoming that you can use to deepen your sense of connection.

Emily Nagoski: 42:49 The last thing I want to say about what will change a year from now. I want people to know how and have the skill to create a magic circle for sexuality in their lives where they shed the parts of their identity that they don’t want to bring into an erotic connection and they step into their protected social space of connection and joy and play and imagination that can only exist in a place of safety and trust. So that they can connect with a partner in the imaginative space, a spiritual space if that’s right for them, and an exploratory space where this touching of your skin isn’t just the touching of your skin, but the touching of these two people and lives that are tangled together in probably more than just one way.

Emily Nagoski: 43:45 Letting yourself explore that together in a protected space because you are not so overwhelmed by the rest of your life that you can find space for that. Does that make sense?

Chris Rose: 44:00 Yes. What an invitation. What an invitation. Emily Nagoski, thank you so much for your time today and we will link up all of these resources, both of these books in the show notes page at pleasuremechanics.com for this episode and so much more to come. Emily Nagoski, thank you so much.

Emily Nagoski: 44:18 Thank you.

Chris Rose: 44:21 All right, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Emily Nagoski. Just a reminder, we are going into a four-part series exploring some of the themes in ‘Burnout’, so be sure to grab your copy of the ‘Burnout’ book. There will be links in the show notes page. And, join us next week for a conversation about the connection between sex and stress and how we can all prevent sexual burnout.

Chris Rose: 44:46 Come on over to patreon.com/pleasuremechanics to show your support for this show. That’s patreon.com/pleasuremechanics. And pleasuremechanics.com/burnout for all of the resources related to this miniseries.

Chris Rose: 45:03 All right, I am Chris from pleasuremechanics.com wishing you a lifetime of pleasure. Cheers.

Wet and Ready: Debunking Myths About Vaginal Wetness and Arousal

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Are you ready? Wet and ready? In this podcast episode we debunk the myths about vaginal wetness, arousal and female engorgement. Get ready to pull apart wetness, arousal, sexual excitation and other important facets of female sexuality (and other vulva owners and those who love them!)

Want to get started implementing our proven strategies for more pleasure and arousal? Get started for free with The Erotic Essentials free online course: PleasureMechanics.com/free

More Sex Podcast Episodes You’ll Love:

The (Still Unknown) Facts About Female Ejaculation

Expanding Orgasmic Capacity

Women Get Erections Too!


Podcast transcripts are generated with love by humans, and thus may not be 100% accurate. Time stamps are included so you can cross reference or jump to any point in the podcast episode above. THANKS to the members of our Pleasure Pod for helping make transcripts and the rest of our free offerings happen! If you love what we offer, find ways to show your love and dive deeper with us here: SHOW SOME LOVE

Transcript of Podcast Episode on Wet and Ready: Debunking Myths About Vaginal Wetness and Arousal

Chris Rose: 00:01 Hi welcome to Speaking of Sex with the Pleasure Mechanics. I’m Chris.

Charlotte Rose: 00:06 I’m Charlotte.

Chris Rose: 00:07 We are the pleasure mechanics. And on this podcast we have soulful yet explicit conversations about every facet of human sexuality. Come on over to PleasureMechanics.com where you will find our complete podcast archive. And while you are there, go to PleasureMechanics.com/free and sign up for our free online course to get started implementing our proven strategies into your erotic landscape. That’s PleasureMechanics.com/free. On today’s episode we are going to be talking about vaginal wetness, wet and ready myths, all of the myths around vaginal lubrication, and what arousal means in terms of wetness. We are going to dive into the pools of vulva waters. Before we do I want to thank our sponsor for this episode, LubeLife. LubeLife offers Amazon.com’s best selling lubricants. Go to Amazon.com and search #LubeLife to find a great value on a great new bottle of lube for your bedside table. Use the code 20mechanics for 20% off your order, or use the links provided in the show notes page.

Chris Rose: 01:28 All right, we are going to be talking about the myths of wet and ready. Wet and ready meaning all of the ideas and myths surrounding the idea of female arousal. Female meaning people with vulvas right. So we’re going to be talking about vulvas and vaginas, and the people that have them. And one shortcut for that is females or women. So the myths around female arousal and wetness. This idea that if she is turned on the pussy will be wet and that is somehow a barometer or an indicator of arousal let alone consent. So this kind of is the parallel myth to the he’s erect, therefore must be aroused myth. And we’ve talked about that in other episodes, we’ll continue to talk about that one. These kind of very false myths about what arousal looks like in different bodies. So we’re going to be talking about vaginal wetness, lubrication, the kind of more anatomical biological truths about the different fluids that come out of vulvas, vaginas, and urethras. And what we need to know about that, how to kind of manage it with a little bit more honesty and passion. And yeah, kind of debunk some myths, install some new knowledge and dive into the wonderful gushing waters of the vulva, and pussy, and yoni, and vage, vagayjay.

Charlotte Rose: 03:16 Whatever you call it.

Chris Rose: 03:19 What do you call it? What’s your favorite word?

Charlotte Rose: 03:21 I really struggle with this sadly. I feel like I don’t have a word any longer that I really love. Which feels like a big gap obviously in linguistic joys of talking about …

Chris Rose: 03:38 Isn’t that sad that we have so many beautiful words for so many beautiful things but so many of us don’t have a word we love for our genitals? Do you like pussy?

Charlotte Rose: 03:48 I don’t.

Chris Rose: 03:49 Yoni?

Charlotte Rose: 03:50 No.

Chris Rose: 03:50 No. Vulva?

Charlotte Rose: 03:53 Yeah I mean …

Chris Rose: 03:55 That’s so funny you’re struggling. We’ve done 320 some episodes of this podcast. What is the word you use for what’s between your legs?

Charlotte Rose: 04:04 I know. I mean I use vulva most often because I feel like I like the letter V and I like how it sounds, and I like that it is truth telling.

Chris Rose: 04:17 I feel like in this conversation we tend to use very specific words. So we use vulva, labia, vagina, clitoris, clitoral hood. Like we tend use more specific words rather than one word for the whole thing.

Charlotte Rose: 04:30 Right. And I also feel like I want to name the specific anatomy so that it’s also more inclusive of bodies that may not identify as women or female, but do have the parts that we’re talking about. So I feel happy with vulva. I understand some people find that too technical, but I think the technicality’s are kind of hard.

Chris Rose: 04:50 Yeah. So in this conversation we’ll try to be as specific as possible with the anatomy we’re talking about, and know that that anatomy can be found on different ranges of bodies. And a lot of people use vagina as the shorthand, which is actually super limiting because vagina is just the muscular sheath that runs from the outside of the body up to the cervix. That’s all it refers to, is this one entry point from the vaginal opening to the cervix. And that’s like defining a car by one of its doors or something. We like to think of the entire sexual system, and the entire sexual system of course being the whole human body and the social system we live in and the universe itself. But when we talk about the sexual system mostly we’re talking about the pelvis and the interlocking web of the pelvic muscles, the pelvic blood flow, the nerves, the nerves that then go up to the spinal cord and the brain, the anatomy of fleshy bits. So the penis or the clitoris, the perineum, all of the muscles there. The anus is included in our idea of the sexual system. So really all of the sexual anatomy and reproductive anatomy if you’re including reproduction in this definition. And all of the bits that connect to it. So this is the perspective we’re looking at this with.

Chris Rose: 06:23 So let’s talk about the fluids of one presentation of the sexual system in humans, which is the vulva, the vagina, the clitoris. So when we talk about getting wet, what does that mean when we say she’s wet? And I could reach over in the office now and pull some erotica off the shelf and find passage after passage that references wetness and, oh when I saw his throbbing member I got wet. So why do we have this vision of wetness as this shorthand for arousal, and what do we mean by that?

Charlotte Rose: 07:03 And why do we talk about members? Why do we … But we won’t get sidetracked by that. We got to stay focused.

Chris Rose: 07:09 You know I have a whole list. I have a whole file of the other podcasts I want to produce some time, and one of them is deconstructing erotica and pulling apart some of this language. In another lifetime. All right so, wetness. When we talk about that, usually what we’re talking about is vaginal lubrication. An idea of a gushing forth of slick slippery wetness from the vagina as part of the arousal process in people with vulvas and vaginas. So that turns out to be just one kind of fluid that comes from the vaginal and vulva area. So I want to first just knock a few others off the table so we know what we’re not talking about, and then talk about this process of vaginal lubrication and fluids when aroused. Does that make sense?

Charlotte Rose: 08:07 Sounds good.

Chris Rose: 08:08 Cool. So there’s like vaginal sweating.

Charlotte Rose: 08:11 Which is something I don’t think we think about much.

Chris Rose: 08:13 No. Right, like there’s tit sweat, and underarm sweat, and foot sweat. And different human bodies have different numbers of sweat glands. We all have this idea there’s really sweaty human beings, and there’s human beings that barley glisten. And a lot of that is just genetics and just like personal stuff. So different people have different amounts of vaginal sweat and genital sweat in general, and butt sweat if we’re in the area. So just identify that as a thing. And sometimes that presents like in the creases of the thighs, sometimes it’s really like just … We all have different presentations of genital sweat.

Charlotte Rose: 08:55 Yeah but if you’ve never thought about that, just as a curiosity and a fascination next time you workout go to the bathroom afterwords and just feel, because it’s interesting just to learn more about your body. And just sort of notice like oh, is that what vaginal sweat feels like? Just for your own information.

Chris Rose: 09:10 Well it can be part of a full body sweat. Again, like at a gym or sauna, or a hot day. But it can also be kind of different sweats can be specific. Like different people have different anxiety sweats. Or sweats related to different emotions. And there’s angry sweats that present in different sweat glands. Maybe we’ll do a whole episode about sweat some time.

Charlotte Rose: 09:35 It’s fascinating.

Chris Rose: 09:35 Totally. I kind of like saying it again and again. So how wet do you get from sweat? And again this conversation we’re going to focus on vulvas and vaginas, but a lot of this information is very relevant to all genital members. Because again, we all have more in common than different when we’re talking about sweat glands, and blood flow, and musculature, and nerves, and all of these things. The more we talk about genitals on this podcast and the more you can look at images, we all have way more in common than different. It’s just kind of different in the architecture of the same elements. All right, so sweat glands. And as I’m talking again, my mouth is getting a little dry, because I’m talking about it. So that’s another kind of wetness, is the mucus membranes of the vulva and vagina. So just like your mouth gets more or less wet with saliva, our vulvas get more or less wet with their native lubrications. And there’s a lot of factors here. The main one that I’m experiencing right now is hydration and use. I am using my mouth and so it is getting a little dry, because air is flowing in and out. I should drink more water.

Chris Rose: 10:53 If the vulva itself is just kind of dry, a lot of this is just full body hydration cues. And the vaginal lubrication is a self generating lubrication like saliva. Like our mucus membranes take care of themselves by generating different fluids with different amino acids, and different electrolytes, and we could like also geek out on our mouth and vaginal fluids in that category. We have whole ecosystems here. And for the most part the vagina and the vulva are a self maintaining ecosystem when provided the environment they are meant to thrive in. Right, like any other ecosystem. Our body as it turns out has all these amazing micro ecosystems, and you can really geek out on this. Like our left hand and our right hand have different kinds of bacteria that thrive there based on what we do with them all day.

Charlotte Rose: 11:58 So astounding.

Chris Rose: 12:00 How cool is that? Our eyelashes and our eyelids have a whole range of ecosystems. If you were to zoom in on the body like we do with terrains … If you think about the ecosystem on the top of a mountain versus the valley below and the whole range in between, so that’s kind of how the human body is. But we also do all these things that mess with those terrains.

Chris Rose: 12:24 What a metaphor we are spinning here. So the vagina thrives when it can have access to air and clean water, and proper nutrition and blood flow, and all of that stuff. So the vaginal discharge … So we’re now moving, we’ve talked about sweat, we’ve talked about the self lubrication like saliva that happens in the vulva, and then around the labia, but also into the vagina itself, and the anus if you want to get technical about it. There’s all these different regions that keep themselves moist. And there’s a word. A lot of people hate the word moist, and there’s whole studies about this word. So if you’re one of those people, hello moist.

Charlotte Rose: 13:09 You might not want to listen to this episode.

Chris Rose: 13:11 Well I’ll try to pivot from moist. But these areas for the most part are trying to keep themselves at a healthy level of moistness just like your mouth. So then we have a category called vaginal discharge. And this is the one that tends to make people go … because discharge feels more of like a medical word, but it doesn’t have to be. There’s a whole range of discharge that can happen from the vagina. Meaning that tube that goes up to the cervix. And this discharge can be just normal and healthy. Normal meaning part of your ecosystem that ranges along your hormonal and menstrual cycles. And it can be like a white odorless kind of range from like waxy greasy, to then your cervical fluid, which is that really stringy, egg white like texture cervical fluid that really emerges around ovulation. So these are some of the fluids and the discharges that come just in and around the vulva and vagina just as part of like they’re daily business and their monthly cycles. And we get more or less intimate with these fluids as we have different relationships with our vulva and vagina.

Chris Rose: 14:32 When we were trying to get pregnant we would call it cervical spelunking. And I would put a speculum in you my dear love and check your cervical discharge for cues about your ovulation.

Charlotte Rose: 14:45 And a head lamp people. For reals.

Chris Rose: 14:47 Full visual. And you know I name that both because in a lot of cultures and a lot of times this is how women self knew their own fertile cycles, by tracking their cervical fluid. And sometimes you can’t help it. You’re wiping your vulva and you get a huge beautiful handful of cervical fluid. And you can stretch it between your fingers and it can be elastic for inches. I remember as a kid, when this was coming and being fascinated by this fluid. Because it seems like as magical as it turns out to be. This is like a slip and slide that the body puts out to usher sperm and semen up into the cervix. It’s like a corridor that emerges out of the cervix when your cervix is nice and open, and I got to see your cervix at different stages. Some couples find themselves in these funny rituals when they’re trying to get pregnant. More and more I think we’re in a more deliberate relationship to our fertility. Some by choice and some by distress. And in those stages you become very aware of things like cervical fluid. But we can all choose to be more aware of this.

Chris Rose: 16:08 So we’re going to move into the sexual fluids realm now. But we wanted to kind of paint the terrain of like all of the different fluids. And then of course there’s pee that comes out of the urethra. So we have the vagina, the hole that goes up to the cervix. Above that is the urethra, a smaller hole that the pee comes out of. We’ll talk later about squirting and female ejaculation, but the urethra is also where the ejaculate comes out of on all bodies. And then above that is the clitoris and the clitoral hood. This is all ensconced, enfolded in the labia. And below that all is the anus and the perineum. Okay so do we have our visual picture of our holes and the fluids coming out of them? And I should have said this before, but maybe notice for yourself like what emotions and sensations and feelings are you having in your body as we’re having this conversation around the vulva and vagina, and it’s fluids and discharges?

Charlotte Rose: 17:12 I think it’s very common for a lot of people to feel grossed out and a bit revolted by these fluids.

Chris Rose: 17:22 Those are strong fighting words.

Charlotte Rose: 17:23 Yeah. Unfortunately I think in this culture and I think there’s value in just paying attention-

Chris Rose: 17:30 Grossed out and revolted.

Charlotte Rose: 17:32 Don’t you think?

Chris Rose: 17:32 I was going for like uncomfortable or uneasy, but okay. Yeah, yeah.

Charlotte Rose: 17:36 I think there’s a spectrum. I think there’s a spectrum that some people … And I think that it’s really valuable that we pay attention to them or just begin to notice them and get to know them. Because they truly are magical, exquisite fluids that allow for this whole system to work and exist, and self clean, and it is extraordinary. And I think that … I don’t know. I really want to sort of just begin to engage more fully with our fluids in order to honor the bodies that we have.

Chris Rose: 18:10 Well it’s to honor it, but it’s also to know what your normal is.

Charlotte Rose: 18:14 Totally.

Chris Rose: 18:14 When you know what your body’s kind of ever changing normal baseline is then you notice when something is starting to change or go wrong or need attention. If you know that your monthly cycles of discharge look a certain way, so at a certain level when your hormones are doing this, you have a whitish discharge that smells kind of neutral and that at a different point of your cycle you have that handful of cervical fluid I was talking about. And at this point in your cycle you get really horny and that’s when your pussy feels like this. If you can articulate that for yourself then you know when for six months you haven’t seen cervical fluid. And you start to be like huh, that’s something different. Or if a different kind of discharge that smells a different way, you can then the next time you go to your doctor or make a doctor’s appointment to start saying things like, my vaginal discharge changed and it starts smelling like this at this point in my cycle. And being able to say that to a practitioner give you such a big head start on things like infections and God forbid cancers and conditions that can really affect your life.

Chris Rose: 19:29 And so we all … And this is embodied wisdom. This is what I would put in that category of knowing your body and living in and with your body rather than despite your body. And for so many of us this sexual wisdom is totally cut off. Because when we’re coming of age … Like think of it as vulva owners. When we’re coming of age we don’t get pulled aside and taught about our magical cycles of release and renewal and how to manage those cycles and what they mean for our cycles of energy. And hormones and what our body might need, and then how to track that with our cervical fluid and our blood. And yeah, and how that aligns up with the moon, God forbid. Right, like we’re not taught any of that knowledge. Most people have no idea where they are in their menstrual cycle. They couldn’t tell you how many days away from ovulation they are. A lot of us are more and more using apps. A lot of us are on hormonal birth control that totally hijack the cycle anyway and have crazy side effects that we’re only beginning to talk about.

Chris Rose: 20:33 Anyway, so there’s a lot of reasons that in hearing this you might A, feel cut off from this knowledge, like never have even thought about your vaginal environment. Never have looked or touched, or engaged, or smelled the things that have come out of your genitals. We’re not encouraged to do that. But then also as Charlotte said the revolt and the disgust around this area is cultural. And yet of course there’s this obsession and all of us really like, there’s this desire for vulvas and vaginas and what they offer us and the experience of being with and in them parallel to this disgust and refusal to talk about them. So let’s just take that in for a moment. And now let’s shift to this conversation of sexual fluids. Sexual arousal. How that influences wetness. And we will do so after a shout out to our sponsor, LubeLife. So we will talk about sexual lubricant in the second half of the show for sure. For now let’s give a thanks to #LubeLife.

Chris Rose: 21:43 LubeLife is the best selling lube on Amazon. I think everyone should have a bottle of sexual lubricant in their house. Even if you are practicing chastity, even If you never have sex, even if you are super active, sexual, whatever your sexual style, have a bottle of lube in the house, because it will come in handy. Go to Amazon, search for LubeLife and find your bottle. Use the code 20mechanics for 20% off the lube of your choice. They have great silicon lube and organic water based lube at a great value. 20mechanics for 20% off, or use the links in the show notes page. Thanks to LubeLife for helping to make this podcast episode possible.

Chris Rose: 22:29 So let’s talk about sexual arousal and fluids and wetness. Because when I say it’s a myth, that doesn’t mean there is no correlation. When I say it’s a myth that means it is not a one to one that when a vulva bodied person, a human with a vulva, gets sexual aroused, that the vulva and the vagina get wet. That is not a one to one correlation. There is a relationship there. Sometimes, not all the time. As so this is one of those areas like so many of the areas we topic, that it’s complicated. There’s a lot of factors that influence this correlation. And so we need to dismantle the myth and get to know our reality with the bodies of us and those we love, and then also hold the fuller range of what’s possible and normalize the range of what’s possible. So sexual arousal in vulva bodied people does sometimes create tremendous wetness. A wetness that can flow from in and around the vulva and vagina, through the vagina, through the urethra, and also through all those sweat glands we were talking about and create a wet, slick, lubricant that ranges from a trickle … Ranges from a dewiness I should say. Sometimes it is just like a moistness. Sorry I won’t use that word. A moistness, a dewiness, a readiness, a flush. Sometimes it is a tidal wave.

Chris Rose: 24:19 It can be copious amounts of fluid that has to be managed with a towel on the bedside table. And I’m not yet talking about ejaculation, which is another phenomenon. That squirting that can be that ejaculate, that propellant of fluid out of the urethra at a height of climax. I’m talking about just the swell of fluids that can sometimes happen with arousal. So Charlotte we have been witness to, we’ve been privileged to be witness to thousands of bodies. Have you in the bodies you have and you’ve made love to witnessed this range of dewiness to tidal wave?

Charlotte Rose: 25:02 Yeah. Yes absolutely. Such a huge range of what you’re feeling with your hands, with your body. But it’s all good. I really want people to separate the idea that more wetness is better and that our bodies aren’t working correctly if they are not as wet as we imagine they should be or they could be, or they have been in the past. Our bodies will change as the seasons change, and in different stage of our life. And it’s so important to honor and let it be where it is at this moment.

Chris Rose: 25:48 And pay attention. So among those factors that can change your ecosystem, prescription drugs, dehydration, times of the month, levels of stress, levels of sleep.

Charlotte Rose: 25:59 Menopause, pregnancy.

Chris Rose: 26:01 Weather. How dehydrated are you from the hike you took that day. All of those factors. Your diet, what you’re eating recently. All those factors are going to influence all of your systems in your body including your genitals. And again we can just pay attention to these things and know these things. But to not shame at any point of that spectrum and know it will change for you. I remember the days where it was so copious I felt like I needed a bucket. Or like I would scoop it out after a hot eventing and play with handful of wetness. And I remember points of being sick where it was like the Sahara. These are hormonal things, these are health things, but these are also just like, I also smoke pot sometimes and the more a smoke pot, dry mouth, dry eyes. Different allergies can trigger dry vaginal environments. So it’s just not as you said, a more wet is better sexual arousal thing. Or like more sexually enlightened thing. And I also get emails from people all the time who feel like they’re two wet and want to learn how to shut it down. Because they find it messy and embarrassing and squelchy.

Chris Rose: 27:20 And then I get emails all the time from people who are like I’m not wet enough, or more often I get emails from partners who are like, I feel like I’m doing all the right moves, I feel like my partner is turned on, but she is never wet. What am I doing wrong?

Charlotte Rose: 27:37 Nothing.

Chris Rose: 27:37 And that’s the equivalent of I feel sexy, I’m trying to turn my husband, boyfriend on, and he’s not getting hard, what am I doing wrong? Right, we’re looking for these cues of arousal, but it could mean any number of things. So pay attention for yourself, get to know your range, and know that it will change. We should all drink more water. The only should I will do on this show … Like there’s a very few shoulds. Drink more water, feel hydrated, a healthy diet. All of those things will help, but also things like blood flow to the genitals. Also things like strengthening and relaxing the pelvic muscles. These things help with vaginal and genital lubrication and engorgement too. Lots of factors, lot of outcomes, explore your system. But the other thing to really take in here is what Emily Nagoski and other brilliant thinkers talk about is, arousal non-concordance. Because the other part of this dismantling the myth is that you can be really wet and engorged, and your genitals can be throbbing, and you might not be sexual turned on at all.

Chris Rose: 28:53 And same with guys. Guys can have a hard penis and a lubricated penis, which for men mean a pre-cum. We can have aroused genitals and not be sexually aroused at all. And that’s also really important to know.

Charlotte Rose: 29:13 We’ve been talking about this so much, but I don’t think … Have we said specifically that wetness isn’t related to how turned on you are.

Chris Rose: 29:21 But this is what we’re dismantling. So I just named if you’re wet you’re not aroused, and you can be very aroused and not wet. I think we’re covering it.

Charlotte Rose: 29:30 Yeah.

Chris Rose: 29:30 Yeah.

Charlotte Rose: 29:31 And very aroused and very wet.

Chris Rose: 29:34 Right.

Charlotte Rose: 29:34 It’s just that the aroused-ness the turned-on-ness in your brain, in your body, doesn’t necessarily represent through wetness. And so just know that for yourself, and for your partner. That that is not a … It is something that can represent turned-on-ness, but isn’t the only.

Chris Rose: 29:54 This is what we’re going for. So correlation, but not direct relationship. And it can be a confusing relationship sometimes. Like I feel really aroused and I’m so into this, why aren’t I wet? Because I used to get wet when I got aroused, and we can problematize this. We can be like maybe I’m not as aroused as I think. Like we can make all sorts of … Or I’m really aroused, but he’s just my coworker and I’m not actually turned on, but why is my pussy so wet when I go to the bathroom? Well you might not be aroused, you might be angry. And angry is a different kind of excitation and arousal of the system. And so if you’re yelling at your coworker and feeling fired up, but you have to be socially polite, and your body’s getting fired up. And you might go to the bathroom after that meeting and reach down and find that you’re all wet. That’s not maybe sexual excitation, that’s just arousal. And just knowing that in your head and being able to check in. And maybe you are sexually aroused and that’s a confusing dynamic. But maybe not.

Chris Rose: 31:00 We need to have deeper knowledge of these systems so we can map these experiences for ourselves and start to have more of a consensual relationship with these systems and how we embody them. So sexual arousal non-concordant with wetness. This is important to know in all sorts of contexts like we just talked about. You can watch an action movie. I often get very wet, and my genitals start thrumming during an action movie. That’s fun for me to know. It doesn’t necessarily mean I’m sexually turned on.

Charlotte Rose: 31:39 But your body is excited.

Chris Rose: 31:41 Right.

Charlotte Rose: 31:41 Another system is feeling activated and you’re alert. And there’s so many different ways of being aroused in the body.

Chris Rose: 31:49 Right. And so notice for yourself, like just notice for yourself when do you get … And also I’m pulling apart here erection and engorgement. So for a penis owner that is more visual and visible. But I will put the podcast link in the show notes page, again we’ve done an episode on female erections, on clitoral erections. And so as a vulva owner, getting to know what that feels like. What does engorgement feel like? For some it feels like a throbbing or a thrumming, or it literally feels like your pussy is bigger, and it’s like at attention. And if you’re in a seat you can kind of like feel it filling out your seat a little bit. What does a clitoral erection feel like to you? And pulling apart kind of engorgement and throbbing sensation in and around your vulva, versus wetness. Because you might have a lot that sensation and the throbbing without wetness. You might have wetness without throbbing. Start to get to know that. And then I’m going to just … One more layer babes, you can do it. For me there’s also another sensation that’s more internal, like around my cervix and my uterus. And that is a different set of sensations. Like if that is contracting, uterine contractions.

Chris Rose: 33:18 And remember that uterine and pelvic contractions are part of the orgasm response. So sometimes when I’m really excited about an idea for an example, or a piece of art I’m looking at, I feel the contractions of the uterus and of the pelvic floor start to flutter. And for me that’s kind of another set of an orgasmic response or a set of responses that I can track and make sense of, have a relationship to. Again, these are all parts of interoception, that art of paying attention to the body and to the inside of the body. And when we have this data it just gives us more information and it becomes less confusing.

Charlotte Rose: 34:03 Yeah. All of this information is so important for us to know. I just was thinking about how we were talking about all the other discharges earlier, and wondering how many people are buying those vaginal cleaning products that they see, thinking that they are needing to clean all of that out, when it’s actually just part of our system that is working perfectly, and we don’t need to purchase other things to cleanse our bodies. But I feel like capitalism has-

Chris Rose: 34:32 It’s almost as if you’re saying there’s an industry creating anxiety about female bodies to sell products.

Charlotte Rose: 34:40 Yes. Yes. Yes. I mean it’s just amazing-

Chris Rose: 34:45 Don’t be a wacky socialist Charlotte. Do you really think they’d create a problem that didn’t exist to sell us something? Okay moving on. Yes, and I was just looking at some of our textbooks and references for this show and one of the groups I trust on this is OBGYN’s and midwives. People who deal with vaginas and vaginal discharge all day. One, my sister is a home birth midwife. Little fun fact of the Pleasure Mechanics. And so we talk, we geek out on vaginas a lot. We have latex gloves in equal numbers, but use them for different things. But I love talking to midwives and looking at texts about vaginas. I love textbooks about vaginas. And one of the things they all tend to agree on is that … So another category of discharge we didn’t talk about is when things like bacterial vaginosis kick in. Right, so when these ecosystems get disrupted through disease or stress, or conditions. Like you did a week of scuba diving in the tropics and your genitals never dried off. Like conditions that create things. Things like bacterial vaginosis are often caused by the products designed to clean vaginas.

Chris Rose: 36:09 One of our previous sponsors, Good Clean Love is doing a lot of work of creating products designed to be healthy vulva washes, if you do feel like you need a little extra wash there. Like a Ph balanced bio matched wash for things like bacterial vaginosis. They are not a sponsor of this episode, but shout out to our friends at Good Clean Love. Yeah, I think it’s … This is a whole area that there’s a lot of shame, a lot of secrecy. And we used to see things like Summer’s Eve douches on the shelf, which were vinegar rinses. And then transitioned from vinegar rinses to super harsh chemical cleaners. We’re using menstrual products with bleached cotton and all sorts of fragrances in them. There’s all sorts of things we are doing to our vulvas and vaginas that are causing unsound conditions. Not to mention, lubes … So let’s get to lube. Lube is super important for a lot of sex acts. You can’t have anal sex or anal play without lube. Stroking the external genitals feels great with a little extra lube sometimes. And penetration of the vagina sometimes is much more comfortable with a little bit of lube.

Chris Rose: 37:32 But what lube you use matters. Just like think of all of the thought we put into what we put on and around our face. You know and especially a lot of woman and more and more men, we have eye creams, and night creams, and day creams, and sunscreens, and lip balms, and ear … What do you put in your ears? I don’t even know, but we think and we put a lot of attention into what we put on our face, and that’s skin. We’re talking about our genitals and a lot of us don’t even know what we’re putting in our genitals, what our genitals like, because we’ve been talking about these things like yeast infections and bacterial vaginosis, and discharge, but everyone has different kind of vulnerabilities in this area. Just like different food allergies, some people are really sensitive to sugars, so a lubricant with glycerine in it, to make it taste a little sweeter and smell a little better, glycerine is a sugar and to some people a lube with a glycerine in it will give them chronic yeast infections for a month. Other people use edible candy underwear and never get a yeast infection in their life.

Chris Rose: 38:44 So we can’t tell you what to do or not to do, you need to be aware of your body and of this kind of information and knowledge, and then be able to make better choices for your ecosystem.

Charlotte Rose: 38:58 Yeah, experiment with things and then see how it feels. And try other ones if they don’t feel good. Like you do with your face. Try different products, find what you like, throw out things that don’t work for you. It’s a process to discover what works best for you.

Chris Rose: 39:14 Mm-hmm (affirmative). And paying attention to right, like what are the ingredients that trigger kind of flairs for you. Ultimately going for what lube feels good going on. A good lubricant when you apply it, should feel yummy.

Charlotte Rose: 39:29 Like you’re doing something that’s good for your body.

Chris Rose: 39:31 Right, because your system is … Just like your face. When you put a good face oil on, you know you have that moment of like ah. It feels good, it smells good, and it feels good on your skin. It’s soaks in well. You feel better having used it. Set that bar for your lubricant and all of the products going into your genitals, and just notice. And sometimes it does mean throwing out a bottle of lube that you don’t love. And that happens with other products too and that’s annoying, but it happens. A lot of online sex toy stores, and again I’ll try to link some up, sell sampler kits. Or you can collect samples from different brands so you can try like a silicon lube, and a water based lube, and an organic really clean lube that’s free of a bunch of stuff, and see what works best for you. And this again is a factor of are you using latex condoms for your sex life? Do you use silicon toys a lot? These factors will influence what kind lube you use. I will link to some lubricant resources on the show notes page of this episode. But again, de-stigmatizing lube. Never feel embarrassed to reach for extra lube, because it means you’re not aroused enough.

Chris Rose: 40:48 I’m so ready to stop getting that email that correlates, oh we had to use lube and that is some failure of arousal. Bullshit. It could just mean you didn’t drink enough water that day, or you’re on a new prescription, or you ate too many pistachios, or that’s just the way your body is working right now at 55 years old, but you’re having the best sex of your life. It could be anything.

Charlotte Rose: 41:12 Or it could just feel more pleasurable to add a little bit of lube so that the sex acts feel more comfortable and pleasurable. Anything that adds to your pleasure is valuable and worthy, and it is not problematic.

Chris Rose: 41:23 And doesn’t need to be apologized for.

Charlotte Rose: 41:25 Yeah. It’s just you’re bringing your tools to the game.

Chris Rose: 41:29 Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Charlotte Rose: 41:30 That was good.

Chris Rose: 41:35 I just remembered our first night together and I had a toolbox with me.

Charlotte Rose: 41:38 Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chris Rose: 41:39 Here we are as the Pleasure Mechanics.

Charlotte Rose: 41:40 Yeah that’s true. You came down into my bedroom with this whole little toolbox and like came and put it by the side of the bed. I’m like hello, someone’s prepared.

Chris Rose: 41:48 Hey I have an idea. All right we’re going to cut here, we’ll be with you next week. So next week is actually a really important episode. Let me give you a little preview of what’s coming here on Speaking of Sex. So go now, I will put a link in the show notes page. Get yourself a copy of Emily Nagoski’s new book Burnout. Emily Nagoski is the author of Come As You Are. I have gotten hundreds of emails from you guys over the years saying this book changed your life. She’s a brilliant writer who weaves science and sociology and she’s brilliant. Her new book is about burnout. About ending stress cycles so we can live better together. Next week we have an amazing interview with Emily. We had such a good time talking about this book. I’ve been reading the book. Get yourself a book on pre-order. We will be launching with an interview next week, and then the whole month of April is dedicated to preventing and ending sexual burnout. Because the themes in this book, the themes of stress and burnout are so much of what we see getting in the way of your sexual pleasure and happiness. And so we’re going to really be talking about ending sexual burnout and what do we need to do so we don’t bring our stress to bed? So stress isn’t the enemy number one of our sex life.

Chris Rose: 43:07 That’s what we’re going to be talking about in April. In May we’re going to be sliding into a whole new exciting-

Charlotte Rose: 43:15 Theme.

Charlotte Rose: 44:02 I thought you were saying my dears to the people, to our listeners.

Chris Rose: 43:15 Theme. Join us on our Patreon at patreon.com/pleasuremechanics. P-A-T-R-E-O-N, patreon.com/pleasuremechanics and we will be talking about all these themes, planning our monthly episodes together, having community discussions and more. And show us some love or the work we do in the world. Thank you so much to our patrons who help make this work possible. We send you so much love. We will be back with you next week with Emily Nagoski’s interview on Burnout. And we are so excited about what is coming this spring and summer from Pleasure Mechanics. We’ve got some good projects my dear.

Chris Rose: 44:05 You my dear.

Charlotte Rose: 44:06 Yes, yes, we do. It’s so exciting.

Chris Rose: 44:08 Are you feeling good?

Charlotte Rose: 44:09 Yeah.

Chris Rose: 44:10 Our kid is at school more. We have so much more time to work and play together.

Charlotte Rose: 44:16 An entire three and a half hours a day. It feels very luxurious.

Chris Rose: 44:21 I’m Chris.

Charlotte Rose: 44:22 I’m Charlotte.

Chris Rose: 44:23 We are the Pleasure Mechanics.

Charlotte Rose: 44:24 Wishing you a lifetime of pleasure.

Chris Rose: 44:27 Cheers.

Sexual Burnout: Exploring The Antidote, Together

Join us for our Speaking of Sex mini series (and group erotic experiment!) on Sexual Burnout! April 2019 we will be hosting a month long exploration of how the stress cycle gets in the way of our sex lives, and what we can do about it. 

  1. Order your copy of Emily Nagoski’s new book Burnout.
  2. Tune in to the podcast for our mini series on Burnout & Sexual Burnout
  3. Join The Pleasure Pod to unlock our Pleasure Practices library and other member-only resources!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BvmTAQIBzFb/

Your Sexual Self Care Pleasure Tools

  • One you don’t want to wait to get started with are these INCREDIBLE rolling balls. TRUST us on this one – the minute you feel it, you’ll “get it” The TuneUp Roll Model Kit* will get you started with one of the BEST self care practices we have found recently.  

Creating Your Bedroom As A Haven

Part of sexual self care is creating spaces you lovingly curate to be erotic refuge for yourself. We’ll talk more about this on the podcast. For now, look around and start noticing what you enjoy about your bedroom and what you might want to upgrade when you have the chance! Is there laundry in the corner? Piles of junk you’ve been meaning to give away?

Now might be a good time to “Kondo” your sex life.


Note: Every once in awhile, one of the links in our emails will be an affiliate link that means your purchase will help support Pleasure Mechanics. But we’ll never link to anything we don’t totally stand behind! Affiliate links are marked with an asterisk * 

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